is marrying off 15yr olds and multiple wifes a big deal?

[Ovedya]

CHILDREN? No, but I think the age of adulthood is different for everyone.

Actually, no, it's the age of consent that varies in different countries. Adulthood is a matter of physical and psychological maturity. I can cite many scientific studies which prove that children of the age of 15 do not have the psychological maturity required for understanding the complications of marriage and child-rearing.

As long as the laws of man do not go against the laws of God, then yes.

Good. Then this issue should be dead. The laws of man state that a child of 15 is not permitted to marry. The laws of man make it a crime for an adult to have intercourse with a minor under the age of 18. The laws of man make it a crime to marry more than one person. None of these laws conflict with the laws of God.

Now to address the rest of your post... ALL of those things are addressed in the bible. Suicide is murdering yourslef, murder is in the bible. Drug use... well your body is a temple of God and you are to keep it holy. Pornography... looking lustfully at another person... Prancing around public nude would fall into the modesty category. I believe it is ALL in there... I also do not like you implying that I or my husband are not reasonable, serious, and scripturally versed.

So what you're saying is that, although these particular subjects are not addressed directly in the Bible, they fall under certain verses categorically. That must mean that certain principals of the Bible apply to us in our daily conduct, regardless of whether or not certain issues are addressed directly. So why then is Merin asking for specific verses, when you both are aware that the Biblical principals of modest and restraint apply in principal?

[ALTACALL]

The statement wasn't supposed to be liked...it was presented as a fact. If people insist on joining in this convo without knowing what they are talking about and acting like this is a big sex orgy for old men...I think someone should be here to tell the truth about it. The truth is that while it is sick, wrong, and sinful...they are not doing it for the sex. They are doing it to have babies in order to achieve Heavenly glory.

They can spin that yarn all they want and you can regurgitate all you like: Men 40+ marrying 13, 14 and 15 year old GIRLS is not about religion and beliefs. Religion and beliefs are smoke and mirrors to a man with justification for being a depraved pervert. These guys made this "religion" up, invented it, concocted it, imagined it and conceived it in their ENSLAVED minds for the purpose of feeding their flesh and the lusts thereof.

You can spin this crap of "their beliefs" all you like, but it's a smoke and mirrors lie to shield and cover over simple fornication, lust and sexual wickedness.

You may not be writing what you are looking for approval, but that doesn't make an expression of distaste by anyone here wrong simply because they think what you've written is a sick and perverted point of view.

What appears to be true is that you are, yourself, feeding on the debate itself -- you on one side and others on the other. THIS is not Christ-like unless one side is truly sin: What those men have done to those girls is sexually perverted sin -- point blank. There's no excusing it. No "religious" belief that makes it "Ok" -- NONE! You are defending the indefensible, no matter what spin or point of view you put on it. What those men have done is not justifiable -- explainable perhaps -- but no where near justifiable, right, good, wholesome and so on.

I agree with what this other person has said -- these young girls are not "breeding stock mares" to be "studded" to increase the "herd". We, they, us are people -- PEOPLE -- twisted, fallen, hurt, sinful and so on. Nothing about this can be condoned or otherwise justified. Again -- you are defending the indefensible.

If were not for fear of the law coming down on them the whole church of LDS would be actively practicing polygomy and that is a fact because Merin is right that it is recognized by them to be the way to some celestial glory, However this was established by a deviant and perpetuated by his original followers. Now if a lie is told often enoughand no other story is told then the lie will become a truth to those that hear it. The most disgusting part is that our courts and government recognizes them as a religion and have certaian imunities and rights as such.

It is true that many of these " families live in communities that most everyone is of the same belief so we don't get the complaint because they see nothing wrong with it. The only difference between FLDS and muslims is that muslims are limited to 4 and in this country they don't want the hassle so they obey the law. The other difference is they have NOOOOOOO value on the women and female children are not really wanted. ONe must study Islam to know and understand this. FLDS is the opposite. It is all about not sharing the wealth and if you knew more of the history of LDS you'd know that "It's all about me" They don't give a hoot about the wommen going to celestial glory.

[ALTACALL]

First, the most glaring difference between what Joseph Smith preached, the LDS version of polgamy, and the FLDS version is that there was a gene pool of thousands of women to marry and have children with. They didn't marry their wives' children or their brothers' children. Or their brothers' wives. There was no inbreeding. No incest. It is the opposite for the FLDS. Everyone is on a compound. Comings and goings are restricted. The same women are being impregnated by the same men over and over. There has to be inbreeding. There is most likely incest. There is most likely child abuse. I think that is why many are refusing to accept the "religion" explaination and "theology" excuses.

Second, can someone provide positive proof, not just reteric, that anyone's constitutional rights have been violated. Not just which rights or a discription of the rights in question but an evidentuary discription which would convince a person, ignorant of the circumstances we are discussing, that rights have been violated.

Brandon, I would check history before making that statement. It was a very small group that Joseph started with and he had no problem taking other peoples wives no matter who they were. If you really believe there was no inbreeding you would be wrong by my studies.

[ALTACALL]

UGH! You have to be kidding????

maybe you arent conservative....

Your obviously new, I'm definately conservative.

Yet, we could never abandon our boys, and if we had daughters, they would never be coerced into marrying a 40 yr old relative at the age of 14.

In our house, there is no molestation, no incest, and no abandoning of children. Those are pretty important things.

here's a couple of similarities for ya...homeschooled...no dating...no vaccinations....extremely modesty in dress and apparel...theres more...

That's a stretch Merin

[BFP]

Well, I have mixed feelings about alot of this, but to me, marrying at 13 is really no big deal, I know of other Christian couples that have married at 13, had kids by 15, and are still together 40 years later. So to me that is really not an issue:>) Way back when girls did marry very young, and at least they know who the father of their children are. 13 year old kids ARE having sex these days...maybe not with men, but with boys who will never take care of them anyway. At least these Mormons are taking care of thier wives.

In a world where homosexual marriage is okay and gays are adopting kids, what does our government really have against polygamy? Perhaps tax issues...that's a whole lot of dependants to be able to get a tax rebate on if it were legal...

Just my take...

[Scarletprayers]

Well, I have mixed feelings about alot of this, but to me, marrying at 13 is really no big deal, I know of other Christian couples that have married at 13, had kids by 15, and are still together 40 years later. So to me that is really not an issue:>) Way back when girls did marry very young, and at least they know who the father of their children are. 13 year old kids ARE having sex these days...maybe not with men, but with boys who will never take care of them anyway. At least these Mormons are taking care of thier wives.

In a world where homosexual marriage is okay and gays are adopting kids, what does our government really have against polygamy? Perhaps tax issues...that's a whole lot of dependants to be able to get a tax rebate on if it were legal...

Just my take...

This is wrong on sooo many levels....................MOST 13 year olds bodies are not ready to have children, it causes all types of medical problems and is also one of the many reasons women used to die so often during child birth.

Men having sex with children is illegal

Men having multiple wives is illegal

Most of these marriages the Father is NOT supporting the children the state is, in welfare, food stamps and housing and medical care

[ALTACALL]

Let me try this again ...

Merin, do you follow the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints?

No I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ sorry I had to get ready for work.

For how long? Would you tell me what you think Jesus' thoughts would be to bigamy, even discounting the age factor/

I have been "born again" since oct 14 1996

and I don't know what bigomy is sorry.

For someone so up on the constitution I'm surprised you know polygomy and not bigamy. so my simple question is what would jesus' position be on a man having 2 wives or 3. not your opinion but use scripture to back it up. fair enough?

[Ovedya]

Well, I have mixed feelings about alot of this, but to me, marrying at 13 is really no big deal, I know of other Christian couples that have married at 13, had kids by 15, and are still together 40 years later. So to me that is really not an issue:>) Way back when girls did marry very young, and at least they know who the father of their children are. 13 year old kids ARE having sex these days...maybe not with men, but with boys who will never take care of them anyway. At least these Mormons are taking care of thier wives.

In a world where homosexual marriage is okay and gays are adopting kids, what does our government really have against polygamy? Perhaps tax issues...that's a whole lot of dependants to be able to get a tax rebate on if it were legal...

Just my take...

Back in the days when people married at 13 the life expectancy was around 50. Children of 13 do not have the emotional or intellectual maturity for understanding or being able to deal with the complexities of marriage and child-rearing. Can you imagine a couple at the age of 13 marrying in today's culture. It's completely absurd.

[ALTACALL]

ok merin, tell me this.... if some 50 year old had the hots for your 13 year old daughter, do you really think that your daughter would be all hot for him in return? and whether she did or didn't (and that's highly unlikely!) would you make her marry the old guy? (or would you even encourage her to do so of her own accord?)

my daughters will marry who, when and how God tells us!!!!

What do you mean by " when God tells US? Are you having a part in the decision?

YES!!! Why wouldnt you have a say in who your children marry? Who's children disregard their parents opinion and marrys whoever they want?! That is nuts! Our children will be raised to respect our opinion...

ARE you Jewish, Muslim, or any of the eastern religions. Did your parents make your decision for you or did you have a family meeting and she got the big O.K.?

[ALTACALL]

ok merin, tell me this.... if some 50 year old had the hots for your 13 year old daughter, do you really think that your daughter would be all hot for him in return? and whether she did or didn't (and that's highly unlikely!) would you make her marry the old guy? (or would you even encourage her to do so of her own accord?)

my daughters will marry who, when and how God tells us!!!!

What do you mean by " when God tells US? Are you having a part in the decision?

oh no I see where that could go....LOL

of course I will be apart of the desition... Who better than their daddy?

You and Hey There should get along great. I have a feeling that when it comes right down to it, baby girl will follow her own heart and not yours