Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree

[VRSpock]

Many Christians equate holiness with righteousness. The opposite of holiness is NOT unrighteousness. The Lord declared the Shabbat...the Sabbath day as Holy. What does that mean? It doesn't make all other days unrightoues ones. The opposite of something that is holy is something that is common. To be Holy means to be special or uncommon, to stand out from those things that are common.

Those who are truly walking in the Spirit stand out because they operate and think in uncommon ways. G-d spent thousands of years teaching the lesson of Holiness to the Jews until it was instilled into their very culture and mindset.

Hi Vrspock. Long time no see.

Where is this verse about trees and gold and silver found? I can't seem to find it.

[David of Derby]

Was your birth important? What about the birth of your family members?

The birth of the Saviour of the World would certainly be more important than all of those put together...It was certinly important to the Angels!

You're missing the point. To the early Christians, Jesus' actual birth was unimportant. It's in the Bible, but that doesn't mean the same thing. In those days, Christians were only concerned with Jesus' Epiphany. Everything He did before getting baptised in the Jordan was just fluff they didn't care about, it was only after He was baptised and came into His power that mattered.

[Guest Biblicist]

Was your birth important? What about the birth of your family members?

The birth of the Saviour of the World would certainly be more important than all of those put together...It was certinly important to the Angels!

You're missing the point. To the early Christians, Jesus' actual birth was unimportant. It's in the Bible, but that doesn't mean the same thing. In those days, Christians were only concerned with Jesus' Epiphany. Everything He did before getting baptised in the Jordan was just fluff they didn't care about, it was only after He was baptised and came into His power that mattered.

You must have missed my earlier post...I'll restate it for you.

Not to derail your thread, but this statement struck me.

Actually, vrsprock, it is not a pagan holiday. People were celebrating Christ's birth several centurarys before the Pagans tried to reclaim the day as their own. As early as 98 A.D. December 25th was not recognized as the celebration of the Pagan Sun God untill 274 A.D. And that was an attempt to undo the effect of Christ on culture. Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to do. Be salt and light to the culture changing it?

My pastor just did a lesson on this Sunday, in reference to whether or not it is correct, according to the Regulative Principal, to celebrate Christ's birth.

The date, not the celebration is pagan. If you read the account of Christ's birth, there was plenty of celebrating going on, by the Angels, the shepherds and the wise men. There is no reason we should not celebrate the coming of our Saviour.

While we are given no command to celebrate Christ's birth, we are given no command to the contrary either. There are 42 prophesies reguarding Christ. His birth was the corination of those. Without his birth there would have been no life, there would have been no ministry, there would have been no death or resurrection, there would be no second coming. What better reason to celebrate!

To most Christians, His birth is VERY important, and if you read the account of his birth, you will see it was important to those who were there.

You didn't answer my question though, do you celebrate family birthdays, or your own?

[David of Derby]

Of course I celebrate my birth and the birth of family members. That has no bearing on whether or not early Christians considered the birth of Jesus of any particular importance.

[Emily~Anne]

Of course I celebrate my birth and the birth of family members. That has no bearing on whether or not early Christians considered the birth of Jesus of any particular importance.

And is your own birth and the birth of your family members more siginificant to you than the birth of Christ?

[David of Derby]

That's completely irrelevent to the dicussion.

[Hypathia]

I celebrate my kids birthdays on their actual birthdays; I don't celebrate them on someone's elses (real or imagined) birthday.

Whether I go to heaven or not will depend on whether it's God's will; if I'm one of His elect or not. I can proclaim Jesus my savior; I can say the sinner's prayer (which isn't even in scripture) I can try and follow all the commandments but when you get down to the nitty gritty it's up to whether God says I'm in or whether He says I'm out regardless of what I say, or do, or think but all too often, like most people, I forget that and think that I have a free-will decision in the outcome. That's a hard habit to break.

[Emily~Anne]

So what if you adopted a child, and the child's birthday was unknown? Would you simply never celebrate the child's birthday?

[Hypathia]

So what if you adopted a child, and the child's birthday was unknown? Would you simply never celebrate the child's birthday?

The chances of that happening are very unlikely; however, if it did happen I would celebrate the birthday on the day the child entered the adoption system or on the day I adopted it and it came to live with me. That's a little different than celebrating the birthday of the God of the Universe who evidently didn't intend for us to know the actual day of his birth. Maybe He didn't want us to celebrate it......I just don't know. All I know is that we don't know when it was, whether we're suppose to celebrate it, and the day that some people do celebrate it was already a celebration that had been taking place for hundreds of years. Maybe birthdays are a big deal to us but not to God?

[Emily~Anne]

So what if you adopted a child, and the child's birthday was unknown? Would you simply never celebrate the child's birthday?

The chances of that happening are very unlikely; however, if it did happen I would celebrate the birthday on the day the child entered the adoption system or on the day I adopted it and it came to live with me. That's a little different than celebrating the birthday of the God of the Universe who evidently didn't intend for us to know the actual day of his birth. Maybe He didn't want us to celebrate it......I just don't know. All I know is that we don't know when it was, whether we're suppose to celebrate it, and the day that some people do celebrate it was already a celebration that had been taking place for hundreds of years. Maybe birthdays are a big deal to us but not to God?

So, are you basically saying that perhaps God made sure we did not know the exact date Jesus was born because it is sin for us to rejoice in the birth of Christ? If not, please clarify the point you are trying to make, cause I am just not getting it.

Also, if you do think it is sin for us to celebrate Jesus's birthday, then why isn't it sin to celebrate your children's birthdays?

And if you do not think it is sin, then what is the problem?