What day of the week should we go to church on?

[Pilgrim7]

Just time for a quick reply.

Jesus and the Apostles preached that first one had to repent and then they could believe to Salvation.

Mt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

3:2 And saying, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.........

3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mr 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel (thus we see that repentance for sin is part of the Gospel of Christ and is necessary for saving faith).

Ac 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were you baptized ? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Peter put it this way:

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Paul brings all this together in Romans 6 on his treatise on Baptism, showing that the one baptized has been crucified with Christ. All the verses you quoted are aplicable, but only dealing with the believing part, for most of the time he was talking to those who were repentant, who had decided to turn from sin and needed to know how to receive Jesus into the heart.

This is why context is important and that Scripture is to be added to Scripture, here a precept, there a precept. When they are all assembled and put together, one has full truth.

I will discuss Romans 6 in detail later,

God bless you

Your borther in Christ,

Dennis

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Dennis,

I agree, one must repent of their sins. I am sorry that I did not make that point clear in my previous post. I have no argument with that. I did say it, but I said it as this:

I acknowledge my sins and my need to be forgiven and I ask Jesus to come into my life, forgive my sins and be my Savior and L-rd, and by His grace, He forgives my sins and makes me a new person, cleansed from all unrighteousness and filled with His Holy Spirit and will live forever with G-d in Heaven.

The Scriptures regarding repentance indicate a person's desire to turn from their sin and serve Yeshua to be saved. I believe I said the same thing, but did not use the word "repentance." Do you agree or disagree?

I do not believe though that the Scriptures says that baptism is required for salvation and if you do, we may discuss that in a different thread. I don't want to get this thread off the topic of the Sabbath observance.

So, let's see where the SABBATH is required for one to be saved if we agree on the other points of salvation requirements.

[Celtic Warrior]

Here are some interesting quotes from History as to the topic under discussion:

Most of the Christian churches kept the Holy Sabbath:

[Vickilynn]

Dennis

So much for checking out what evidence I sent you. From this I can only assume that you are one of those who accepts the evidence that fits their view and refuses to even look at anything that might shoot down your position. very sad. However you must do as you see fit.

<sigh>

Shalom CW,

And so much for grace. There is none. That is what is very sad. And grieves the Holy Spirit.

What I sent you clearly predates the information you're presenting and shows that sunday observance was a norm even in the 2nd Century, not the 4th or 5th (and NOT just in Rome or Alexandria, but amongst Christians in general, including Jerusalem) (in fact there seems to have been a rebirth of Sabbath keeping in the 4th Century sometime and the article shows that FAIRLY)

And do you think that what MAN does supersedes G-d's Word? Sunday gathering for worship does not negate the 7-th day Sabbath in any way, shape or form. G-d created the Sabbath at CREATION as the 7th day and He never changed it.

Men who call Sunday the "Sabbath" are incorrect. The Sabbath Biblically is always the 7th day. However, there is nothing wrong with gathering on Sunday or any other day to worship. Your argument that men meet on Sunday does not change the Biblical truth that Sunday is not the Sabbath, but it's a fine day to worship.

At this point all I can say is that I hope your lawkeeping faith does not exclude you from the Lamb's Book of Life, written before the foundation of the world

If one truly cares for the eternal soul of someone they are talking with, love and grace will be evident, not condescension and criticism.

[Smalcald]

Is Sabbath observance a Christian moral issue, or an issue of Christian worship observance? For example in Galatians Paul spells out of us what the works of the flesh are and what the fruits of the Spirit are and what the consequences of each are for human beings, is Sabbath observance a fruit of the Spirit and is non-Observance as described in Exodus under the Law given to Israel a sin of the flesh which if not repented of shows a lack of faith? If it is a moral issue then we better do it correctly. For example there is no grey area in adultery, we better know what adultery is and understand what it means to break this commandment without repentance, there is no grey area in theft or murder, it is important to know what these mean. If Sabbath observance is truly part of the moral law, I don

[Celtic Warrior]

Dennis

So much for checking out what evidence I sent you. From this I can only assume that you are one of those who accepts the evidence that fits their view and refuses to even look at anything that might shoot down your position. very sad. However you must do as you see fit.

<sigh>

Shalom CW,

And so much for grace. There is none. That is what is very sad. And grieves the Holy Spirit.

What I sent you clearly predates the information you're presenting and shows that sunday observance was a norm even in the 2nd Century, not the 4th or 5th (and NOT just in Rome or Alexandria, but amongst Christians in general, including Jerusalem) (in fact there seems to have been a rebirth of Sabbath keeping in the 4th Century sometime and the article shows that FAIRLY)

And do you think that what MAN does supersedes G-d's Word? Sunday gathering for worship does not negate the 7-th day Sabbath in any way, shape or form. G-d created the Sabbath at CREATION as the 7th day and He never changed it.

Men who call Sunday the "Sabbath" are incorrect. The Sabbath Biblically is always the 7th day. However, there is nothing wrong with gathering on Sunday or any other day to worship. Your argument that men meet on Sunday does not change the Biblical truth that Sunday is not the Sabbath, but it's a fine day to worship.

At this point all I can say is that I hope your lawkeeping faith does not exclude you from the Lamb's Book of Life, written before the foundation of the world

If one truly cares for the eternal soul of someone they are talking with, love and grace will be evident, not condescension and criticism.

And if I were you I would be careful of throwing stones yourself. With Loving admonishment I will point out that you have been quite condescending and critical of others in several of your posts as well. There was only sadness at his refusal to look at evidence that does not support his position, not condescension, as you call it.

I will also point out that I have never said the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, and neither does the evidence I present. I have said repeatedly that Christians are not commanded to keep Sabbath in the New Covenant and that the Sabbath is not commanded anywhere in the Bible outside of the Sinai covenant, not even in the reference you quote about Creation. So please don't misquote me. The Sabbath is Sundown Friday til Sundown Saturday, it is the Seventh Day of the week, No Argument there, the question is not about what day the Sabbath is, it never has been. It is about whether there is a requirement for Christians to keep Sabbath, which you yourself question in your queries to Dennis about whether keeping Sabbath has anything to do with ones Salvation.

Romans 13:8 - 10 (ESV) 8Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments,

[Vickilynn]

And if I were you I would be careful of throwing stones yourself. With Loving admonishment I will point out that you have been quite condescending and critical of others in several of your posts as well.

Shalom CW,

Absolutely not. I challenge you to produce such a post. Let us consider the term you used "loving admonishment" in relation to my posts. There has been no criticism or condescension in my posts at all.

Romans 13:8 - 10 (ESV) 8Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments,

[LOVEFORTHELORD]

by shiloh357

Good... Is Sabbath observance, in your theology, essential for salvation? I do not keep the Sabbath on the seventh day, and I have no intention of doing so. I reject your contention that Sabbath observance is necessary or more important than the other nine commandments. So my question, which is a very simple one, is what will be the eternal consequences for rejecting Sabbath observance?

I'm sorry for budding in,I hope you don't mind.

The way I understand it ,is if someone has been convicted that they are breaking one of the 10 commandments,and don't repent and change, then it is sin.

If you have been told or you read something in scripture that confirms you are sinning, like for me it was reading Isaiah 56,then after I found out about the Sabbath, if I had just flat out refused to hear it, because of pride,or because I thought I was right and didn't think it mattered to God, without seriously asking Him to show me, then I might be doing it for the wrong reasons.

I believe God puts things on our hearts, or people in our path to lead us to His truths,and if we won't listen, it is our pride that blinds us from them.

We should all pray like David prayed. Search me, Oh God, and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

If we refuse, when we are showed, then we are sinning.

As for saying for a fact that some will go to hell for not keeping it, I don't think anyone could ever say that because only God knows their reasoning for not keeping it, and He alone knows whether it is because of their pride and just don't want to hear it, or because they really believe it had been fulfilled or abolished or what ever the reason, He knows our every thought.

Your sister in Christ,

[Vickilynn]

I'm sorry for budding in,I hope you don't mind.

The way I understand it ,is if someone has been convicted that they are breaking one of the 10 commandments,and don't repent and change, then it is sin.

If you have been told or you read something in scripture that confirms you are sinning, like for me it was reading Isaiah 56,then after I found out about the Sabbath, if I had just flat out refused to hear it, because of pride,or because I thought I was right and didn't think it mattered to God, without seriously asking Him to show me, then I might be doing it for the wrong reasons.

I believe God puts things on our hearts, or people in our path to lead us to His truths,and if we won't listen, it is our pride that blinds us from them.

We should all pray like David prayed. Search me, Oh God, and know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

If we refuse, when we are showed, then we are sinning.

As for saying for a fact that some will go to hell for not keeping it, I don't think anyone could ever say that because only God knows their reasoning for not keeping it, and He alone knows whether it is because of their pride and just don't want to hear it, or because they really believe it had been fulfilled or abolished or what ever the reason, He knows our every thought.

Your sister in Christ,

Shalom!! You are not butting in! All comments are welcome here. And I really like yours!!

You are correct, to those who believe it is sin, it is.

Isaiah 58:13-14

If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Romans 14

23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

[Celtic Warrior]

Shalom CW,

Absolutely not. I challenge you to produce such a post. Let us consider the term you used "loving admonishment" in relation to my posts. There has been no criticism or condescension in my posts at all.

It would be easy to produce the posts, but it is unimportant. You made several posts to smalcald(sp?) that were taken by him to be condescending and reproachful. That was his impression of your wordings (and I saw his point as well). In your thoughts you saw your words as being loving and Christian, he saw your words in a different light. That is what is also happening with the way you are looking at my words. You are reading meanings, emotions and intents that I haven't put there. You see evil intentions and unChristian wordings that were never put there by me (so they are your interpretation of my meaning), making it you who is putting the ill intentions behind the wordings.

And I will point out to you that the Sabbath as I understand it and have explained it and supported with Scripture is how G-D decreed it. My understanding is the Biblical one, IMHO. And the early church did keep the Sabbath. As I have said repeatedly, the 7th day Sabbath was never changed by G-d. And all attempts by MAN to change it should not be held up as a Biblical example. I will remind you that Sabbath was instituted by G-d at Creation and it was never rescinded. Sunday is not the Sabbath and never will be.

And I have already agreed with you on the Sabbath points you make. The Sabbath was not changed. I agreed and still agree, and will continue to agree. However I disagree with your interpretation of the meaning of the Creation 7th day and with your interpretation of the Sabbaths relevance to Christians.

So, from your own words, it is fine to disagree. We will probably never reach consensus, and the same is true between me and Dennis (and any other Sabbatarian). That is fine, but accusations of impoliteness are not appropriate because we disagree. My words (and wording style) may offend your sensibilities, and I'm sorry for that and apologize to you, but because you misunderstand them by no means supports that I mean them the way you think I do.

The early church met other days than 7th day Sabbath, but they never claimed Sunday (or any other day) was the Sabbath. This is a big point for you to understand in my position.

As for extra-Biblical historical writings, they have their place, but the Scriptures say that Believers in Messiah observed the 7th day Sabbath. That is my point. They did not call Sunday the Sabbath.

I agree, they did not call sunday the Sabbath, they called it the Lord's Day, as to the rest, the Bible does not support that they set aside Sabbath as Sabbath (or observed the 7th day in the way you're inferring), only that they went to synagogue or temple on that day because it was traditional for the Jews among them (at first), the Jews were there and the reading of the Scriptures were there. Then they went elsewhere to consider and discuss them and how they applied to themselves.

Yes Paul preached in the synagogue, on Sabbath, but also preached in public places and in private houses and in jail and anywhere else he could preach Christ Crucified. And on any day of the week that he could. The Acts Church met daily. So? What proof is that of Sabbath Keeping? Peter also preached in houses (even of Gentiles) and on days not the Sabbath.

I guess it's time to agree that we disagree. Peace to you and your household