Have you received the Holy Spirit?

[stevehut]

1- If you do the job of planting churches, and then oversee them afterward, you are doing the work of an apostle.

2- I don't know what circles you travel in, but I think it is great they are that zealous for God.

3- The biggest difference today is that we give offices differen't titles than they used to hold in Bible times, and some of the offices we still claim are much differen't than they were at their origins.

4- I have never seen where a Deacon board was set up to dictate the direction a church will go.

1- That's a different matter than occupying the office.

2- Good! I don't doubt that for a moment.

3- True.

4- I believe the first deacons were appointed, jot just to serve the widows, but more broadly to defend the equality of the Gentile believers alongside the Jews. Sounds like a vitally important "direction" for the church. But that's a minor distinction in this discussion, in my view.

Steve

[Candi770]

A leader of a church I attended once asked me this very question. He siad that because I couldn't speak in tounges that therefore I hadn't received the Spirit. I tried to explain to him that not all speak in tounges and that it is the least of gifts. He wanted to pray over me so that I would specificaly 'receive the Spirit' and in turn speak in tounges. Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

Well, it is a gift that you receive. I had someone pray over me, I didn't doubt it and it wasn't long when I was in church during a prayer time, when I heard to men singing in the spirit (in tongues) and I told the Lord, I want that and let me tell you, it was the next time in church, the spirit of intercession (prayer) came upon me and I heard my spirit going 90 miles per hour, speaking in that unknown tongue, I picked up a few words and started speaking it out, then I had a connection of spirit and my mouth and it took off. It was awesome. I started having prayers I prayed I know for a year come to pass the month later. Things were working out, the Lord started waking me up for intercession, dreams later came for the purpose of intercession. It's been very interesting. But I believe the Holy Spirit is given the moment we are saved and then we can ask for this baptism and receive this gift. The Holy Spirit is awesome!

candi

[Floatingaxe]

A leader of a church I attended once asked me this very question. He siad that because I couldn't speak in tounges that therefore I hadn't received the Spirit. I tried to explain to him that not all speak in tounges and that it is the least of gifts. He wanted to pray over me so that I would specificaly 'receive the Spirit' and in turn speak in tounges. Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

Well, it is a gift that you receive. I had someone pray over me, I didn't doubt it and it wasn't long when I was in church during a prayer time, when I heard to men singing in the spirit (in tongues) and I told the Lord, I want that and let me tell you, it was the next time in church, the spirit of intercession (prayer) came upon me and I heard my spirit going 90 miles per hour, speaking in that unknown tongue, I picked up a few words and started speaking it out, then I had a connection of spirit and my mouth and it took off. It was awesome. I started having prayers I prayed I know for a year come to pass the month later. Things were working out, the Lord started waking me up for intercession, dreams later came for the purpose of intercession. It's been very interesting. But I believe the Holy Spirit is given the moment we are saved and then we can ask for this baptism and receive this gift. The Holy Spirit is awesome!

candi

Amen, Candi! God bless you, dear!

[Candi770]

A leader of a church I attended once asked me this very question. He siad that because I couldn't speak in tounges that therefore I hadn't received the Spirit. I tried to explain to him that not all speak in tounges and that it is the least of gifts. He wanted to pray over me so that I would specificaly 'receive the Spirit' and in turn speak in tounges. Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

Well, it is a gift that you receive. I had someone pray over me, I didn't doubt it and it wasn't long when I was in church during a prayer time, when I heard to men singing in the spirit (in tongues) and I told the Lord, I want that and let me tell you, it was the next time in church, the spirit of intercession (prayer) came upon me and I heard my spirit going 90 miles per hour, speaking in that unknown tongue, I picked up a few words and started speaking it out, then I had a connection of spirit and my mouth and it took off. It was awesome. I started having prayers I prayed I know for a year come to pass the month later. Things were working out, the Lord started waking me up for intercession, dreams later came for the purpose of intercession. It's been very interesting. But I believe the Holy Spirit is given the moment we are saved and then we can ask for this baptism and receive this gift. The Holy Spirit is awesome!

candi

Amen, Candi! God bless you, dear!

Thanks, God's blessing to you too!

[asap]

the perfecting of the saints

the work of the ministry

the edifying of the body of Christ

Isn't this what every minister is supposed to do? Or for that matter, any mature believer?

Steve

A mature believer can encourage and edify others, certainly.

Ephesians 4 list five specific offices that were placed in the Church. They haven't disappeared.

You are right they haven't disappeared and the way things are going:

Till we all come in the unity of the faith,

and of the knowledge of the Son of God,

unto a perfect man,

unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

they never will.

[asap]

A leader of a church I attended once asked me this very question. He siad that because I couldn't speak in tounges that therefore I hadn't received the Spirit. I tried to explain to him that not all speak in tounges and that it is the least of gifts. He wanted to pray over me so that I would specificaly 'receive the Spirit' and in turn speak in tounges. Boy, did I make my exit quickly before he could work his magic!

Well, it is a gift that you receive. I had someone pray over me, I didn't doubt it and it wasn't long when I was in church during a prayer time, when I heard to men singing in the spirit (in tongues) and I told the Lord, I want that and let me tell you, it was the next time in church, the spirit of intercession (prayer) came upon me and I heard my spirit going 90 miles per hour, speaking in that unknown tongue, I picked up a few words and started speaking it out, then I had a connection of spirit and my mouth and it took off. It was awesome. I started having prayers I prayed I know for a year come to pass the month later. Things were working out, the Lord started waking me up for intercession, dreams later came for the purpose of intercession. It's been very interesting. But I believe the Holy Spirit is given the moment we are saved and then we can ask for this baptism and receive this gift. The Holy Spirit is awesome!

candi

Candi,

My experience with the baptism of the Holy Spirit was just as powerful and life changing as you had, yet I was alone at home when it happened. I was in a church that had some major internal problems and it was suppressing the moving of the Spirit. I have since moved on for a season to a church that has expressive services without tongues and interpretation, but I still do have powerful spirit filled times in my individual worship, prayer and praise. The Holy Spirit is awesome.

Amanda

[irishcowboy]

this is what Paul was teaching in 1st Corr 12, 13, 14.... dicipline... use and abuse.....

What I don't understand is this: if speaking in tongues is of the H Spirit, why does anyone need to discipline them, because in doing so, one is disciplining the H Spirit! Also, if the person speaking iin tongues needs discipline regarding tongues, it seems to me that this automatically means that the tongues are not of the H Spirit but of human origin. If they are of human origin, they are not of G-d. That is pretty frightening!

what was happening, was that people were jumping up and hallerin' out, disrupting the worship.

the Bible does tell us how to conduct ourselfs during worship time. when there is some one speaking, we are not to interrupt, wether it is a word of prophecy, or whether it is to ask questions..

and that goes for todays time too.... if the Spirit gives a word to a person, they are to wait until there is a point to be shared..... a person that is intune with the Spirit will find that sometimes the Spirit will give a word ( tongues, or interpretation, or prophecy, or knowledge or wisdom or something else) and the person will not be able to share it.....

have had this happen, received a word, i thought it was to be shared, and there was no oportunity for the word to be shared, actually had my tongue held.... then some one else gave the word, (comfirmation for them) i had the word for several minutes, and was unable to release it. other times it might be to show the person receiving it a peticular lesson..... other times it might not be for everyone but for the person receiving it, or to be privately shared with one or two others and not the entire assembly....

as with everything in life, dicipline strengthens....... practice strengthens..... practice is dicipline..

should we continually disrupt the service to give a word? every time the pastor starts speaking, some one stands up and starts a series of messages???? very disruptive, very undiciplined....

if the Spirit gives a person a word, it can be held until the proper time arrives....

also, we are not to give a word in tongues if it is known that no one in the assembly will interpret it...

in some assemblies (fellowships) if a word of Tongues is given, the person giving it will just about be run out.... some litterally..... and if there is and interpretation follows, they both will be asked not to come back......

again this is dicipline, knowing where and when to share a word......

from my travels, i have found that very few of the so called main stream church fellowships (lutherine, presbys, methodist, baptist, and others ) do operate in the Gifts of the Spirit, they say they are not for today (funny, if they Gifts of the Spirit are not for today, why is everyone always praying for a healing or a miricle? kind of counter productive, isnt it? saying the Gifts are not for today, but trying to use one? )....

there are some that do operate, even some Catholic fellowship even operate in the Gifts...

and the first thing Paul says in chapter 12 is:

Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

I have to agree.... if we do not know about them, about how they operate, and where they come from and for what purpose, we are ignorant of them..... this is not saying some one is stupid or dumb, just untaught..... no different then an electrician being ignorant of plumbing, or a plumber being ignorant of the work of an electrician...... those that have not been taught about the Gifts are ignorant of them, not putting them down, just stating a fact.

further on Paul writes

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit

this is saying there are different gifts, for different uses, not all gifts are used for the same things

but ALL THE GIFTS come from the same place....

we do not get healing from God and tongues from the devil,

we do not get miricles from God and prophecy from the devil,

all the Gifts come from God, and Paul teaches us to be seeking after the greater....

another abuse of the Gifts would be worshipping the Gifts rather then the Gift Giver.....

Some people say that you are not saved unless you have spoken in tongues..... this would be a case of worshipping the Gift rather then the Gift Giver......

some may even be seeking the Gift of Healing or Working of Miricles rather then seeking God....

so many times Christ has told His disciples to seek the Lord first..... the day of Pentacost did not happen by accident, it came from following instructions... it came from people seeking God.....

it started out with many people, (thousands) and as the days drew on, the numbers dwendled, down to about 120 people on the tenth day.......

120 people followed the instructions that were given, many did not a multitude did not..... so only 120 people received that first day....

it is a matter of being obedient, not so much of sacrafice......

there will be a lot of people that never receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, this does not mean they are not saved.... they do not want the responsibility the added power brings, some will denounce the gifts because they do not want it,

kind of like the fox that wanted the grapes from the vineyard, but the farmer had put up a very tight strung fence with traps through out his land, the other foxes kept telling him those grapes are not worth it, for with all that has been done it is sure death and the fox was advised not to go......

well, the one fox went..... and never made it to the grapes, for in the process of trying to get there, he encountered a trap, that cut off his tail.......

the fox, being embarrassed, then sceemed up a plan to cover his embarrassment, he tryed to get the other foxes to cut off theirs, explaining that they are no longer needed that they are just combersom and can get you ensnared in traps and briars and such.....

alot of people treat the Gifts of the Sprit as the one fox was telling the others about their tails, that they are not needed......

if the Gifts of the Spirit are not for use, why were they even included when the Bible was set up for cannonizaiton???? would they not have been deleted if they were not longer needed????

fact is, they are still in operation this day, and will be UNTIL ALL IS MADE PERFECT....

that will not be until Christ returns and takes His throne on this earth.....

mike

[Floatingaxe]

Excellent, Mike!

[Tzav_LaTzav]

Ah, the weekend days with all the holidays are over, and alas! I can only be on the computer a short while, 'cause it's back to work. Regardless, I caught this new answer from Mike:

this is what Paul was teaching in 1st Corr 12, 13, 14.... dicipline... use and abuse.....

What I don't understand is this: if speaking in tongues is of the H Spirit, why does anyone need to discipline them, because in doing so, one is disciplining the H Spirit! Also, if the person speaking iin tongues needs discipline regarding tongues, it seems to me that this automatically means that the tongues are not of the H Spirit but of human origin. If they are of human origin, they are not of G-d. That is pretty frightening!

. . . if the Gifts of the Spirit are not for use, why were they even included when the Bible was set up for cannonizaiton???? would they not have been deleted if they were not longer needed????

fact is, they are still in operation this day, and will be UNTIL ALL IS MADE PERFECT....

that will not be until Christ returns and takes His throne on this earth.....

mike

Mike, I have No Doubt that the gifts of the Sp rit are both extant and in use -- I never wrote that they were not (not that you accused me of such).

What I am writing is this: I have seen tongues faked many, many more times than I have seen them appearing to be real. I have been around their use when the atmosphere was spiritually-discernably icy-cold and uncomfortable and when it was not.

With regard to falling backwards, I have only been around that once when I walked into a church in the middle of the service, and the feeling in there was unmercifully like walking through an electrically-charged field. My hair stood on end and prickled. It was not nice. There was something in there . . . definitely something.

Otherwise, all I know of these things are what I have seen on television on those very few times I have watched this out of curiosity.

I operate in one of the listed gifts on a daily basis, less in another of the listed gifts. Neither of these gifts are showy or exciting, and I am very happy with that. G-d does not have to create a show to get me excited about Him and living The Life in Him.

[Pilgrim7]

The gifts of the Spirit are not for evidence of the Spirits indwelling. The fruit of the Spirit is how we may know whether we are indwelt by the Spirit of holiness and others who are operating under the control of the Spirit. All who follow the Spirit will have the fruits of the Spirit, all of them, at least in the beginning stages, present and growing.

Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them (not by thier gifts).

7:21 Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Eph 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;

The main work of the Holy Spirit is to make His Temples, those in whom He dwells, Holy. The believer is to follow as He leads into all holiness, righteousness and love.

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

1pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be holy in all manner of conversation;

1pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.

2pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat ?

If as much attention were given to the fruits of holiness, righteousness and love as are given to gift of tongues, both real and false, the churches would be red hot with love and Godliness instead of the 'lukewarm' focus on minors and the reception of 'every wind of doctrine' blowing about today.

God Bless,

Dennis