Who teaches our "teachers"?

[Christos-phero]

Thank you all for your responses, especially you Christian .

The verse was meant as I had believed it to be. What I find interesting is that Jesus referred to the "Old Testament" and used it as His foundation. New Testament believers refer to what Jesus taught, as translated by His disciples. But what amazes me is that in this day and age, that often becomes interpretations of interpretations of interpretations, made by men, whom we "assume" to be interpreting them correctly. And if they are truly Holy Spirit "inspired" teachings, then how can there be so much disagreement and disunity among them?

If two acclaimed "men of God" preach of different messages and conclusions, who is to know who's really right? Once we seperate our pride and/or stubborness from our viewpoint, do we really "know"?

So I guess what I'm asking is how do you "know" your teacher/preacher is "divinely inspired"?

Grace and peace to all those posting here,

His servant,

Christos-phero

[Christos-phero]

whats wrong with self teaching? nothing. christ wanted us to become that way in season.

preachers do not...because then we dont need them, enough to "pay to pray"...and then they're out of job (financial security)

and many "church going" brethren, dont want this for others , outside the church building's political grasp...because...they are to fixed/stuck/sold on purchasing salvation through works( attendance/missions/"ministries") and "titheing" ( a false spiritual security..for the spender..and a financial future for the collectors- not dissimilar to the premise of "indulgences" of luthers day)...and would feel more comfortable having everyone else to be even as they are.

"and he commited himself to no man...for he knew what was in man"

and concerning "elders"....who is older than the spirit?

Thanks for coming back micen2 ,

I take it you are not a "church-goer" ???

I tend to agree with what you are saying above, but I do wonder if you attend a "church", or do you have a different means of fellowship with others (other than Worthy?)

[Christos-phero]

"Do you attend church?" well...that language is commonplace among believers...and the answer (yea or nea...or sometimes)seems almost to be a prerequisite to your assumed level of spirituality....before even hearing what wisdom might blossom from that persons company...(which to me...I will...say ..."is" forsaking the fellowship)

I agree with you wholeheartedly here brother. Two verses come to mind when I think of this:

Luke 18:17 Truly I say to you, Whoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no way enter into it.

and...

Ecclesiastes 12:12-13 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

I do not like the pontification that arises by those who feel their scholarly wisdom trumps my faith and understanding. This was my inference of the dislike of the "interpretations of interpretations of interpretations" of men.

no...not a church goer...nor a feigner of going anywhere...but what I do feign is the "location" of god's holy spirit....according to the teaching of "church". I had originally gathered that you felt the same...even from the op and the thread title...thats why I responded with such vigor and enthusiasm..just hadn't much to add...sigh sorry bout that confusion bro ...

so ...my fellowship is open 24-7... 8 days a week. and you don't need to be eloquent nor learn-ed to cast your opinion therin...that is... in the heart of my tabernacle. selah.

I don't think Jesus turned the "simple" away either brother

moreover and most importantly....you needn't "pay to pray" (I wrote that one myself )

"come as you are"

"Pay to pray" is an excellent visual.

Peace to you

CP

[HAZARD]

There is more to this than meets the eye.

Ordination comes first of all from God. When Jesus ordained the twelve and the seventy to represent Him, He gave them power (Matt. 10; Luke 9:1-8; Mark 6:7-13). When God wanted His church to establish Christianity throughout the world, He endued them with power to confirm His Word (Mark 16:15-20; Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8; 3:6; 19:11; ect.). When servents were chosen by THE HOLY SPIRIT and the church to do Christian work, men already FILLED with faith and power and the HOLY GHOST were chosen (Acts 6:1-8; 13:1-3)). When the church chose men to represent it among the heathen and to travel among local churches they choseworkers who had been tried and tested (Acts 8:12-20; 13:1-3; 15:2; 22, 25-28; 2 Cor. 8:19). When Paul ordained Timothy he imparted power to him (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6). When Paul was chosen to represent Christ amnong the heathen, Ananias laid hands upon him that he might be healed and baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17). These are enough scriptural examples of the qualifications and practice of ordaining men for the work of teaching and preaching the Word of God.

The only question left to settle is, Who are to ordain?

It is clear in the New Testament that Christ personally ordained the twelve and the seventy (Matt. 10; Mark 3:14-21; 6:7-13; Luke 6:12-16; 9:1-9; 10:1-20; John 15:16). Churches ordained men (Acts 1:22-26; 6:1-8; 13:1-5; 2 Cor. 8:23). Leaders of churches also ordained men (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5).

It must be remembered that to ordain means to choose, appoint, and set apart, and in this sense any person or group of persons who has the responsibility of choosing, appointing, or setting apart any one to the work of the church has the right to ordain. There is no statement in the Bible that ordination should be done only by a select few in the church. Those in each local church who have the right to select or choose anyone for a work have the right to ordain that person to that work.

"Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are which testify of me (John 5:39).

Mincen 2 wrote,

"I will not post here again...thankyou. good grief."

.

Mincen2, o, mincer of many word's, glad to see you got over yourself!

[Christos-phero]

Brother Hazard,

Though your references are spot on for your point, I disagree in one way. The men you speak of were truly a cut above the average man today. Their proximity to the real truth enabled them to more honestly serve the cause. The anointing of the twelve and of the seventy was clear, as was their commision. They were not acting as a church "system", "religion", or "denomination", in their ordination.

Though there are many good church leaders out there, how many of them would "sell and give up all their belongings" and take up to follow the Lord? We have seen the embarassment and debacle that the "organized church" has become, with it's fallen and misled leaders, "ordained" by those who were "empowered" to do so.

And we have also seen congregations misled and wrongly acting on "ordained" instruction (a.k.a Pastor Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church, etc...).

I just don't think any Christian is a "lesser" Christian because they are not attending an organized church.

[Guest man]

It was organized religion that nailed Christ to the Cross.

[Christos-phero]

and christos..........I am glad we didnt misunderstand each other for too long....I like what you say......and feel good to be in your thread. I don't know that you have much of a condition...you seem very spot on to me...

I often suffer from a condition known as l.o.i. disorder...when reading lengthy posts, with little being said therin..............."lack of interest"

You are very kind brother and I do thank you for your encouraging words. The content takes me a little while to get out, involving a few trips back to the computer to get it all written, but I do put my whole heart into it and in the end it's to the point. I do like your disorder better than mine though, (l.o.i ), and wholeheartedly agree about "rambling" posts. It takes so few words to convey love, too often the rest is just prideful verbosity.

It is likewise "nice to have you around" the thread.

(p.s. and I also get a kick from your name, man, thanks for the post)

[Floatingaxe]

micen!

(It's "provocation." )

[HAZARD]

Brother Hazard,

Though your references are spot on for your point, I disagree in one way. The men you speak of were truly a cut above the average man today. Their proximity to the real truth enabled them to more honestly serve the cause. The anointing of the twelve and of the seventy was clear, as was their commision. They were not acting as a church "system", "religion", or "denomination", in their ordination.

Though there are many good church leaders out there, how many of them would "sell and give up all their belongings" and take up to follow the Lord? We have seen the embarassment and debacle that the "organized church" has become, with it's fallen and misled leaders, "ordained" by those who were "empowered" to do so.

And we have also seen congregations misled and wrongly acting on "ordained" instruction (a.k.a Pastor Fred Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church, etc...).

I just don't think any Christian is a "lesser" Christian because they are not attending an organized church.

I should add that I do not attend or belong to any church, religious group or organization.