Tongues what do you think? (MERGED TOPIC)

[germanJoy]

'nebula'

i'm not taking you up on it, but its cool that you are putting yourself out there like that.

a question though, if i were to take you up on it, are you confident that i'll understand what you are saying, or confident that if i was to record it, it would be a certain language, for example, the tongue of italian, or the tongue of russian

??

crabs><>

crab, to educate your mind of the biblical views about "tonques", allow me to requote here my own personal post regarding "Tonques acceptance" from a christian website: http://www.christianchatforum.com/bbs/show...p=4546#post4546

QUOTE.

The word "tonques" in the bible has four (4) different definitions:

1. Physical tonques - Psalms 78:36 Nevertheless they flattered him with their mouth, and they lied to him with their tongues.

2. Tonques meant as "languages" of the nation and people - Gen. 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tonques, by their lands, by their nations. Rev. 10:11 And they said to me, "You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tonques and kings.

The other two (2) meanings describe the speaking with "tonques" as the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament which both needs a gifted interpreter.

3. Tonques of men (earthly foreign language tonques) wherein the language being spoken is foreign to the speaker but may or may not be foreign to the listeners. (If a foreigner hears that the tonques spoken is in his own language, then he should of course interpret the tonques. But if no foreigner or learned interpreter is present, then the one who has the "heavenly" gift of interpretation should interpret. If there is still none, then no tonques should be spoken.) Examples of these instances are in Acts. 2:4-11

4. Tonques of angels (heavenly tonques) wherein the language being spoken is foreign to both speaker and listeners. In this case, the one who is heavenly gifted should interpret. 1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak with the tonques of men and of angels.....

Quote:

Question:

Edited June 1, 2006 by germanJoy

[crab3]

"germanjoy"

I applaud your persistance, i really do, its almost enough for me to just say 'i believe you' based on your effort alone, but i can't do that.

i went to Bible study last night, there are normally about 30 of us, our preacher is on a trip to marry the last of his sister's kids, so someone else took over. we were studying ISA, but he didn't want to step on the preachers toes, so he studied out of Mark, 'signs of the end times,'

out of the 20 or so that showed up, 1 had a differing opinion. we study end times together, i study with my preacher as he is my father in law, we compare different theories about it, weigh the differences and such. except for little differences, most of the folks at the Bible study agree on most accounts, well last night we found out that the 1 among us has a totally different take on it all. she says she is taking the Bible literaly, but then she says that revelation has already happened, and that all we are waiting for is Jesus to come back. you could imagine how the rest of us felt, sitting here waiting for the end of the world, and she was telling us its not going to happen. she disagreed the whole time, 30 min of debate with her, in the end, walking out of the church, loudly talking to herself, she said that 'its ok yall got it so screwed up, some people just can't understand.'

i think that is an extreme case, compared to this one, i think in this case its two people who firmly believe and are not willing to budge, i can clearly see, that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no more. You can clearly see that they haven't stopped since Paul's day. you are not going to change my mind, i don't think i'm going to change yours. lets call it a day........

crabs><>

[Arthur Durnan]

So, quickly put on your biblical Thinking Caps. The classic "tongues" passage in Acts 2:8-11 specifically states the very national & earthly languages - not mish-mash - spoken & heard by the gathered individuals at Pentecost! Nary an iota of a hint re "heavenly gibberish" anywhere! And, of course, angels speaking in actual Hebrew - not "mish-mash" - to the Palestinian shepherds has to be Exhibit No. 1. Why wouldn't they have spoken in a "heavenly" language in order to please charismatics & compatriots? Hmmm?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[nebula]

a question though, if i were to take you up on it, are you confident that i'll understand what you are saying, or confident that if i was to record it, it would be a certain language, for example, the tongue of italian, or the tongue of russian

??

I am confident that it is a genuine language spoken on Earth, yes.

[Arthur Durnan]

Well, at last glance methinks two plus two equals four. If "tongues" are indeed known, understood, national & earthly dialects as specifically shown in Acts 2:8-11 (the classic New Testament passage on "tongues," better languages), why pray tell are the "tongues" employed by Pentecostals "heavenly gibberish" in that they can never tell you what known, understood, national & earthly language they employed?! Well, please, WHAT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE OF EARTH did you speak? Even ANGELS knew the languages THEY spoke! Excellent query - and it won't curl up in a corner and stay curled.

httP;//arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[nebula]

I don't know every language on the planet!

I only know that I couldn't gibberish or fake a language, and that when I pay attention to what is being spoken it has the sounds and fluctuations of a language.

I'm willing to allow you to take up on my offer as well.

If you can prove that I speak gibberish and not an actual language, I'm all ears.

[Arthur Durnan]

One more time. There is no such thing anywhere in Holy Writ re "speaking in an UNKNOWN language." The very word "unknown" itself does not appear in the Greek in 1 Corinthians. All biblical languages are known, understood, earthly languages - never a "heavenly gibberish" or a "divine babble" - as evidenced in the classic Acts 2:8-11 passage which records the actual countries & their specific languages involved. And it's most interesting that not one Pentecostal friend promoting "unknown" languages has ever dealt with the ANGELS of Holy Writ in every instance speaking to man in a known, understood, national & earthly language without exception....and NEVER ONCE in a "heavenly gibberish"! Why not? Further, charismatics who promote "unknown" languages will, of course, be recommending to Pentecostal seminaries that all future AOG missionaries wishing to serve in foreign fields need not take language training! THAT must be the most logical & most scriptural imperative, yes? One cannot get pithier than that.

In point of historic and biblical fact, the charismatic emphasis on "heavenly gibberish" was long gone from the global Church of Jesus Christ for almost two thousand years until it "commenced again" in Azusa Street Pentecostal assembly in 1900!! It certainly had "ceased of itself" (Greek). Res ipsa loquitor! Now I'm heading up to Starbucks for their new Banana Cocoanut Frappucino altho the banana bit is not necessarily my favorite flavor drink-wise.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[tah]

We who know that tongues are a very real gift of the Holy Spirit will continue to Praise God with our "heavenly gibberish"...

Hallelujah!!!!! \ /

and you are free to Praise Him however you feel to Praise Him!!!

[Arthur Durnan]

Your non-response from the Bible (on Acts 2:8-11, etc.) to the points raised, well, it kinda "disarms" me. One supposes your non-answer might indeed be the very best charismatic answer, yes?

Anyways, come join me sometime at Starbucks!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[nebula]

One more time. There is no such thing anywhere in Holy Writ re "speaking in an UNKNOWN language."

Just because I don't know what the language is does not mean it is not a true human language.

I recall in college seeing a film of some people in India or Tibet or somewhere in that part of the world, and as I heard them speaking their native language, I nearly fell off my chair - for it sounded exactly like the language of one of the people in my prayer group!

Again - if you want to arrange a phone call and record my tongue and actually verify that it is not a language, I'm willing.

Are you?