Freewill

[eric]

In light of the various posts in this thread, can anyone explain what Solomon meant in the last chapter of eccl.,v:13, when he said, Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God and keep His commandments for this is the whole duty of man.

[Dad Ernie]

In light of the various posts in this thread, can anyone explain what Solomon meant in the last chapter of eccl.,v:13, when he said, Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God and keep His commandments for this is the whole duty of man.

[eric]

Exactly, Dad Ernie, exactly. Thank you for responding.

in Him,

eric.

[mike2]

I'm not saying we don't have the ability to choose or that we are robots. I am saying that our Will is limited (as you just proved). We can choose to sin, we can choose to serve. At the same time, if God absolutely wants something done, He'll get it done...whether we pray for it or not.

Greetings Apo,

Balak's will was quite contrary to God's purposes, but HAD TO HAVE His mind changed (his will) by the portent laid before him by the ass. Same with Jonah. They still had the ability to choose, but wisely, they changed their mind. God did NOT force them to correct their behavior.

Do you believe that we can get God to change His mind through prayer and supplication? Isn't that what Jesus preached? Remember the neighbor that needed bread late night and hounded his neighbor until he got a response? There are many parables that indicate it is us, particularly as Christians, who ask ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL, that brings his might to bear.

I like the following verse:

2 Chron 7:14-15 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.

I still ask for scriptures which support your contention.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

I guess you're right....God has no power....we are more powerful than God.

See where your conclusion leads? God will only act when man chooses/asks Him to (so long as it is His will). Man does not act, therefore God does not act. This means God is limited by man.

Regardless, Jonah had no choice, unless you call death a viable choice. He was told to go, he chose not to, God put Him in a giant fish, gave him the choice again, and he "chose" to go. Basically, God would have done the same thing. What do you think His interaction with Israel is? It's a constant, "Fine, you won't choose my way, I'll force you my way." In Hosea He talks of how He "hems in" Israel. This means He leaves them with no choice but to follow Him. With Paul, He told Paul what he would do, not what he could do. With Pharoh, he hardened his heart, without Pharoh choosing to be hardened.

I dont know if its relevant or not, but I dont believe God gave Jonah a choice when he was in the belly of the whale. Jonahs life had gotten so bad without God in it (he did choose to keep running from Him) that on his own, he finally spiraled down, almost to hell, at that point he came to the realization that he needed God in his life.

By the same token the pharoh chose to ignore, and never accept, Gods signs, and God finally let him be, He quit showing Himself to pharoh, pharohs heart then became hardened.

I think out of love for us, God limits Himself, He will not force Himself on us ( He didnt do it at Ninevah, he used Jonah)

He lets Himself be known to us, but its totally and completely our freewill to accept Him. Animals interestingly, don't have that choice, and I guess they dont know sin, they have no choice they are Gods (unwillingly?)

It may seem like God has no power,but, what if God, in His wisdom has choosen to use that power in such a way, that we come to Him freely, maybe realization, rather than because of , hu-hum- shock and awe

[jesussaves]

2Corinthians 4:3-4 "But if the gospel is hidden, it is hidden from them that are lost: in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine to them."

This wonderful truth leaps out when we pray for the lost. You see, we have the spiritual power and authority, not over the will of the lost, but over the enemy! (Luke 10:19)

The devil tries to keep people bound in areas like "free will"...but... we can pray a blanket over our loved ones and bind that spirit of darkness away from their minds so they can see clearly to the goodness of the Lord and say,"Yes, Lord, yes, to Your will and to Your way!!"

Never stop praying for your lost loved ones or whomever the Lord has placed on your heart! Our God is able! And..He is always right on time!! We may not see the results right away, but they are sure to come,... because He said so!!

...

[50_Cent's_dog]

God created us and God created animals

God gives us life and God gives animals life

What is it that allows us free will, but not animals?

How does that differ from animals?

Hey Mike2,

The difference between humans and animals is that God gave humans a soul. Does that answer your question?

[mike2]

God created us and God created animals

God gives us life and God gives animals life

What is it that allows us free will, but not animals?

How does that differ from animals?

Hey Mike2,

The difference between humans and animals is that God gave humans a soul. Does that answer your question?

When I first posted this, I wondered if anyone would get to that.

Now I ask,

If we have a soul but animals don't... what is life?

Do animals only have the one life, the life of the body?

If they dont have a soul, what makes them tick? Who, makes them tick?

Are they basically automatons / props on the stage of life?

I'm just wandering with my thoughts here, maybe the Spirit is taking me someplace with this

[Copper Scroll]

Where is the scriptural support for the idea that animals don't have souls? Is having a soul what is meant by "God's image"? Perhaps having a soul means being free.

We, as humans, do have "free will"--meaning that humans are liable to act in a number of different ways given the same situation. This appears not to be the case for animals.

Many posters on this thread have the peculiar notion that a human being's free will would somehow override God's. I think this is silly. All freedom has limitations and boundaries. America is a "free" country, but we have laws. If God wants something done, then it will be done. That doesn't mean that humans have no choices.

[~SPIRITBLADE~]

Where is the scriptural support for the idea that animals don't have souls? Is having a soul what is meant by "God's image"? Perhaps having a soul means being free.

We, as humans, do have "free will"--meaning that humans are liable to act in a number of different ways given the same situation. This appears not to be the case for animals.

Many posters on this thread have the peculiar notion that a human being's free will would somehow override God's. I think this is silly. All freedom has limitations and boundaries. America is a "free" country, but we have laws. If God wants something done, then it will be done. That doesn't mean that humans have no choices.

the "FEAR OF GOD' is translated as "HATE EVIL", which is to say, if you do 'fear God' you hate evil. i have been rescued more times than i can remember by God, how anyone could choose to fear thier own Father is beyond me...

as an addendum, ANIMALS DO HAVE SOULS, however being incapable of CHOOSING, they are denied the Holy Spirit, unless God PERSONALLY CHOOSES INTERVENTION....ie. the donkey.

having said that: if you love your Father, you do as He instructs.

Edited March 24, 2006 by ~SPIRITBLADE~

[Copper Scroll]

the "FEAR OF GOD' is translated as "HATE EVIL", which is to say, if you do 'fear God' you hate evil. i have been rescued more times than i can remember by God, how anyone could choose to fear thier own Father is beyond me...

Well, don't some people choose not to fear God?