Question regarding 2 Corinthians 12

[Triple Crown]

In my reading this morning I was drawn to these verses and saw them a little differently than I had any time I've read them before. I was curious what others understand Pauls' "thorn" to be that's stated here?

2 Corinthians 12:7-9

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Blessings,

in His service

TC

[Elihu's Girl]

In my reading this morning I was drawn to these verses and saw them a little differently than I had any time I've read them before. I was curious what others understand Pauls' "thorn" to be that's stated here?

2 Corinthians 12:7-9

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.

8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Blessings,

in His service

TC

I've always been taught that no one knows what Paul's thorn was.

I found this article...

Another site

Hope this helps... at least until some more knowledgeable people wake up and check the forums

[David from New Bern]

Speculation is all we have to go on. The most popular guess is his eyesight, particularly since this man was a scholar, the loss of his eyesight would have been a real handicap. Others have suggested the nightmares from his participation in atrocities against Christians earlier in is life. The point in the text coincides with the truth of this passage...And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.Romans 8:28-29NKJV

The truth to be learned is that God is behind the good things and the bad things turned to good to bring about Christlikeness. It is even said of Christ...

though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.Hebrews 5:8 NKJV

These verses and these truths are a real obstacle to people who teach that "the prayer of faith" will deliver us from all disease and tribulations as a matter of God will and intent. Paul said, my ego would stunt my growth if had nothing to restrain my confidence. My health has kept me in place as well, and I thank God for my physical limitations. It keeps my prayer life focused and reminds me that my treasure is not here. I'm to work here for the kingdom and I need to look to him moment by moment for strength and empowerment.

Edited March 16, 2006 by David from New Bern

[branchesofHim]

In my reading this morning I was drawn to these verses and saw them a little differently than I had any time I've read them before. I was curious what others understand Pauls' "thorn" to be that's stated here?

Paul said what it was ... "a messenger of satan sent to buffet him lest he should be exalted above measure".

If a "messenger" of God is an angel, then what is a "messenger" of satan? Did not part of the angels leave heaven with the devil?

Peace.

[nebula]

My personal take is that it isn't important what the thorn is, else Paul would have said what it was.

The reason it isn't important, IMO, is that if it were written what it was, we would think that only that kind of suffering would be covered by God's grace (I've had enough experience with how people apply Scripture ).

So, I think it best we don't worry about it. That makes it more applicable to us, that we can find grace in our pain, no matter what the cause of it is - whether physical, mental, emotional or spiritual.

[Smalcald]

It could be physical or psychological; it seems to me if it was tormenting him it was probably some sort of temptation. I agree that it does not matter what it was, and I think Paul did not tell us for the reason mentioned above, that we would then only focus on that particular thorn, when thorns come in all different stripes and types.

I also think though it has a deeper meaning for Christians struggling with temptation and sins of desire. Our culture says that any desire you have must be fulfilled, that indeed we have a right to fulfill our every desire, be they sexual, food, money, alcohol, money, etc, the list is endless. But here we have an Apostle of Christ, a true Christian leader saying, yes I also have some sort of major thorn, but I will fight it, I will not be overcome by the thorn. However it could also have been physical, regardless Paul shows us that sometimes we must deal with things, God calls us to essentially suck it up.

[Iryssa]

In my reading this morning I was drawn to these verses and saw them a little differently than I had any time I've read them before. I was curious what others understand Pauls' "thorn" to be that's stated here?

Paul said what it was ... "a messenger of satan sent to buffet him lest he should be exalted above measure".

If a "messenger" of God is an angel, then what is a "messenger" of satan? Did not part of the angels leave heaven with the devil?

Peace.

Exactly. People make such a big deal about this, when it is really so simple. He said in plain text it was a "messenger of satan". That is, the Lord allowed an evil spirit to torment Paul in order to keep him humble.

Paul could not have lost his eyesight, as some claim, because he WROTE the epistle. If he was blind, he could not have written this epistle and others. Further, in the book of Acts, he was clearly HEALED of his temporary blindness that he had from the road to Damascus.

Well, it was common practice in those days to have a scribe (unofficial or official) to write things down for you. Yes, the fact that Paul had poor eyesight is a definite possibility, though I sincerely doubt that he was entirely blind. It seems likely that he wrote his greetings and some of his closing remarks in his own hand, while dictating the rest. (1 Cor. 16:1, Gal. 6:11, Col. 4:18, 2 Thess. 3:17, Phm. 1:19) The fact that he was healed of his temporary blindness from the road to Damascus really says nothing about having poor vision as he got older.

[nebula]

**I still think worry about what the thorn was distracts from the point of the message.**

[David from New Bern]

**I still think worry about what the thorn was distracts from the point of the message.**

I agree Nebula, Paul's spiritually mature response in the latter part of his ministry points to contentment as the goal.

[Openly Curious]

In my reading this morning I was drawn to these verses and saw them a little differently than I had any time I've read them before. I was curious what others understand Pauls' "thorn" to be that's stated here?

Paul said what it was ... "a messenger of satan sent to buffet him lest he should be exalted above measure".

If a "messenger" of God is an angel, then what is a "messenger" of satan? Did not part of the angels leave heaven with the devil?

Peace.

abranchofHim is exactly correct here regarding Paul's thorn in the flesh as it records exactly what the thorn in the flesh was in verse #7 (a messenger of Satan) and you can read throughout the book of Acts about all the things that Paul had to endure in his missionary journeys because of the trouble the messenger of Satan (demon) caused or stirred up to hinder Paul's ministry but throughout Paul's walk with the Lord Paul found that the grace of God was sufficent in all of his weaknesses Christ was made strong within his life.

To buffet means "to box" and Paul had to fight the good fight of faith as he said in 1 & 2 Timothy that he had fought a good fight and a crown of righteousness was layed up in store for him as he was close to his death. What a testimony to have at the end of your life "I have fought a good fight and finished my course as the grace of God was sufficient to meet all of my needs."

God Bless you abundantly

Openly Curious

Edited March 16, 2006 by Openly Curious