The Kingdom: Earthly or Heavenly?

[OneAccord]

I have come to realize in the course of the Book of Isaiah thread that I really don't comprehend the coming kingdom. I'm fairly confused about it.

Is the millenenial kingdom different from the eternal kingdom?

Is there an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and then an eternal heavenly kingdom after the millenium?

Does everyone get resurrected to live in the millenial kingdom or are we waiting for the eternal kingdom?

Where does the 'rapture' fit into this? If the church is raptured out, are they then brought back to earth for the millenial kingdom?

Is the passing away of the old earth by fire before the millenial kindgom or after the 1000 years? In other words, is the millenial kingdom on the new earth?

I have more questions but I'll start with this.

[martyr]

I've come to the belief in pre-tribulationism. From my studies, I think that Christ will take us up in the rapture, and His 1,000 year reign will begin after that. In 1 and 2 Thessalonians(i can't recall the exact verses right now), there is seemingly supporting evidence for the rapture occuring prior to the tribulation(1 Thess), and for Jesus' return to rule over and judge the earth(2 Thess). A very good book to use as a supplementary resource is David Jeremiah's, Escape the Coming Night.

[nebula]

Well, just to "yab my yaws" a bit . . . .

I've given up on the pre/mid/post - tribulationism and millenialism concepts. You can spend hours and days and weeks and months and years studying the stuff - and what does it give you?

I think of the angels appearing to the disciples after Jesus ascended in Acts 1 and questioning them: "Why do you stand here looking into the sky?"

Prophetic books are a big mystery, and those mysteries are rarely understood before the event happens (just look at how many people understood the prophecies of the Messiah when Jesus was walking the Earth; it was only after that the disciples understood).

I've just learned to put all the arguments on the back-burner and allow time to unfold itself as it comes. Altough it may be fun to try to figure stuff out, I'd rather spend my theological energies on issues I need for everyday living -

Like "What would Jesus do if He were driving this car!!!!!???"

[Guest shadow2b]

I have come to realize in the course of the Book of Isaiah thread that I really don't comprehend the coming kingdom. I'm fairly confused about it.

Is the millenenial kingdom different from the eternal kingdom?

Is there an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and then an eternal heavenly kingdom after the millenium?

Does everyone get resurrected to live in the millenial kingdom or are we waiting for the eternal kingdom?

Where does the 'rapture' fit into this? If the church is raptured out, are they then brought back to earth for the millenial kingdom?

Is the passing away of the old earth by fire before the millenial kindgom or after the 1000 years? In other words, is the millenial kingdom on the new earth?

I have more questions but I'll start with this.

yeppppp--there is a 1,000 yr. reign of JESUS-YESHUA- with the saints [us] when JESUS-YESHUA-returns to [THIS] earth HIS feet will land on the mount of OLIVES--outside of JERUSALEM, where HE

ascended into heaven with 500 followers watching HIM....there were two men in white apparel; Which also said,ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven?? this same JESUS,which is taken up from you into heaven,shall so come in like manner as ye have seen HIM go into heaven......

ACTS.1.vss.10 & 11--------

let me see if i can splain this so we both don't get more confused -----the way i was taught by a SPIRIT-filled baptist pastor,teacher,friend is; ------as JESUS IS COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN, we, the saints,church,believers, the bride of CHRIST, are rising from the earth, with the righteous dead who are resurrected from the grave & given new eternal bodies as we also are given new eternal bodies,

we meet JESUS in the air as HE is coming down & when HIS feet touch the mount of OLIVES, this begins the 1,000year reign of JESUS & HIS bride,saints,believers,church, whatever name anyone calls it, whether it is the bride,the saints,etc.etc.etc----there is only one return of JESUS & only one gathering of the saints for this 1,000year reign of JESUS----------I think i'll stop at this point,& see if i have confused you more or have been somewhat helpful...O.K.???????-------Gary----

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OneAccord,

Is the millenenial kingdom different from the eternal kingdom?

We actually see 3 types of references to "the Kingdom". The one in which we Christians now live:

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Then the Millenneal Kingdom where we shall reign with Christ for 1,000 years at the end of which hell and eath are destroyed in the Lake of Fire:

1 Cor 15:25-26 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Is there an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and then an eternal heavenly kingdom after the millenium?

The above is the 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ and below is the New Heavens and Earth - the "eternal heavenly Kingdom":

Rev 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Does everyone get resurrected to live in the millenial kingdom or are we waiting for the eternal kingdom?

Christ is coming for a "beautiful bride", complete, whole and wanting of nothing. These are they of faith who will be slaughtered by the beast, OR are those who escape the beast (who are alive and remain) at the Lord's coming - these are few in number.

Luke 12:37-38 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1 Thess 4:14-17 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (THE RESURRECTION): 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (THE RAPTURE) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I BELIEVE THIS VERSE IS THE ACTUAL TIME OF THE "FIRST RESURRECTION":

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Where does the 'rapture' fit into this? If the church is raptured out, are they then brought back to earth for the millenial kingdom?

In 1 Thess 4:17 above the words "caught up" is the RAPTURE. It is AFTER the RESURRECTION. Notice that we are all caught up "in the clouds", both the dead and the living. We are not caught up to Heaven. But according to Zech 14:5:

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Is the passing away of the old earth by fire before the millenial kindgom or after the 1000 years? In other words, is the millenial kingdom on the new earth?

The Millinneal Kingdom occurs first with the saints of God ruling and reigning with Him on THIS EARTH for 1,000 years. See Rev 20:6 above. Then the New Heavens and the New Earth shall come:

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 21:1-22 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Crusader4Christ]

So Shadow, when does Armageddon take place then? Unless Jesus appears

at Armageddon, destroys the Antichrist and the False Prophet, and we resurrect at the same time, where would Armageddon fit in?

But what about Revelation 19:11?

Revelation 19:11

"And I saw Heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and He that sat upon him was called FAITHFUL AND TRUE, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war."

Is this not the Lord Jesus Christ at the Battle of Armageddon? So, does Jesus

come straight from Heaven, or does He descend to the Mount of Olives?

[Guest shadow2b]

YEPPPPPPPP,THANKS DAD-----pretty well splains things---------Gary---

[Guest shadow2b]

So Shadow, when does Armageddon take place then? Unless Jesus appears

at Armageddon, destroys the Antichrist and the False Prophet, and we resurrect at the same time, where would Armageddon fit in?

But what about Revelation 19:11?

Revelation 19:11

"And I saw Heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and He that sat upon him was called FAITHFUL AND TRUE, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war."

Is this not the Lord Jesus Christ at the Battle of Armageddon? So, does Jesus

come straight from Heaven, or does He descend to the Mount of Olives?

ARMAGEDDON is AFTER the 1,000year reign------there is ONLY ONE coming of JESUS---there is ONLY

ONE gathering,of the saints----THERE IS also a [RAPTURE] if you will, of 144,000 jews,which are the first fruits unto GOD & THE LAMB------------- I referre you to my first somewhat limited post & DAD ERNIE'S most excellent exegesis----------------Gary-----------

[Crusader4Christ]

Armageddon is after the 1000 years? I don't think so Shadow. Armageddon

happens before the 1000 years. Why? Satan will be locked up, and loosed for

a short season.

The Antichrist and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Armageddon finishes. Then, Satan is bound in chains for 1000 years ( the

millennium for the Bride of Christ), and after the 1000 years, Satan shall be

loosed for a short season, and shall gather Gog and Magog around the "camp

of the saints", and will surround the "beloved city", but will be "devoured by

fire from Heaven."

So you see. Satan doesn't get tossed until AFTER the Millennium. The key verse here.

Revelation 20:10

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,

where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day

and night for ever and ever."

If you read this verse, the Beast and the False Prophet were already tossed into the lake of fire, at Armageddon, which is before the Millennium. Satan is tossed after the millennium, when Satan and all of the demons and Gog and Magog gather the "camp of the Saints".

[Guest shadow2b]

Armageddon is after the 1000 years? I don't think so Shadow. Armageddon

happens before the 1000 years. Why? Satan will be locked up, and loosed for

a short season.

The Antichrist and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Armageddon finishes. Then, Satan is bound in chains for 1000 years ( the

millennium for the Bride of Christ), and after the 1000 years, Satan shall be

loosed for a short season, and shall gather Gog and Magog around the "camp

of the saints", and will surround the "beloved city", but will be "devoured by

fire from Heaven."

So you see. Satan doesn't get tossed until AFTER the Millennium. The key verse here.

Revelation 20:10

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,

where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day

and night for ever and ever."

If you read this verse, the Beast and the False Prophet were already tossed into the lake of fire, at Armageddon, which is before the Millennium. Satan is tossed after the millennium, when Satan and all of the demons and Gog and Magog gather the "camp of the Saints".

I think you just might be right bro.------DAD Earnie splained this to me once before I think--well somebody did anyhow....armageddon is ONE war---then after the 1,000year reign is another war with gog & magog RIGHT????????----hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???? I'M still learning BUT sometimes I forget what I was taught till some smart-alek like YOU has to come-along & REmind ME-------SO the ezek.38.vs,16 is the ezekiel war with gog & magog which is AFTER the battle of armageddon ----vs.16--the latter days???

ezek.38.vs.8---in the latter years???---ezek.38.vs.11--would be Israel AFTER the 1,000year reign, where there are the land of UNwalled villages???RIGHT??????--come on tell me MORE bro.------Gary--- :upsided: