Created in the Image of God

[enoob57]

58 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

God breathed it into man, so it involves a human.  

What I have to deal with are the clear words:  RE-generation, born AGAIN, made ALIVE.  These are literal things.  And 1 Thess 5:23 speaks of 3 things involved in humans;  body, soul and spirit.  And they are literal as well.  So the only thing that makes sense to me regarding what died "on the day" Adam ate the fruit would be the human spirit.  Souls don't die, and Adam didn't die until 930 years later (Gen 5:5).  

And being born with a dead human spirit explains the words "spiritually dead".  Yes, we are separated from God, because our human spirit is dead at birth.  Which is why we MUST be born again.  In order to be able to worship God, per John 4:24.

Heb 4:12 indicates the soul and spirit can be separated.  They are related but separate.  Just as bone and marrow are related but separate.

 

 

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God breathed it into man, so it involves a human.  

The reliance of the soul to even exist is 'The Breath of God'/'Spirit'

 

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What I have to deal with are the clear words:  RE-generation, born AGAIN, made ALIVE.  These are literal things.  And 1 Thess 5:23 speaks of 3 things involved in humans;  body, soul and spirit.  And they are literal as well.  So the only thing that makes sense to me regarding what died "on the day" Adam ate the fruit would be the human spirit.  Souls don't die, and Adam didn't die until 930 years later (Gen 5:5).  

That's why death is not cessation of existence but separation from God 'literally'

 

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And being born with a dead human spirit explains the words "spiritually dead".  Yes, we are separated from God, because our human spirit is dead at birth.  Which is why we MUST be born again.  In order to be able to worship God, per John 4:24.

Heb 4:12 indicates the soul and spirit can be separated.  They are related but separate.  Just as bone and marrow are related but separate.

The key to thought on this does any part of God cease, become nought, sin, be more or less than any other Persons of God? The Breath literal, in a non-creative way, is God 'The Holy Spirit'... So, when Adam chose to sin the separation of 'God's Breath' from Adam was immediate...

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

FreeGrace said:

 So the only thing that makes sense to me regarding what died "on the day" Adam ate the fruit would be the human spirit.

If you are saying the spirit is the breath of life that God placed in Adam at creation, how then can a soul live when the breath of life is dead?

Gen 1:26 says God created man "in His image".  God (Elohim) is plural, meaning more than one.  The Bible describes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as God, that makes 3, so God is Triune.  

1 Thess 5:23 describes the 3 parts of man:  body, soul and spirit.

Heb 4:12 says the Word of God divides soul and spirit.  That means there are 2 immaterial parts of man, both of which were breathed into Adam, which then made him "a living being".  And not until then.

All of this clearly supports the understanding that when Adam ate the fruit, he became spiritually dead.  So naturally, that would refer to the human spirit.

Can't be the soul, since the soul includes the conscious, intellect, emotions, etc.  The human spirit, according to Jesus is necessary for worshiping God.  John 4:24.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The reliance of the soul to even exist is 'The Breath of God'/'Spirit'

Yes, I agree.  But we know that man has a soul and spirit, both of which are immaterial.  When else would God have put a spirit other than when He breathed into Adam's nose the "breath of life"?  I think it's obvious.

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

why death is not cessation of existence but separation from God 'literally'

I agree.  And the very words "RE-generation", "born AGAIN", and "made alive" are literal words that mean something literal.  The only thing that fits is the human spirit, which did die on the day Adam ate the fruit and then hid from the Lord.  Therefore, every human being is born spiritually dead, which refers to the human spirit, and is why everyone needs to be born again, or RE-generated, in order to worship God.  Jn 4:24

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The key to thought on this does any part of God cease, become nought, sin, be more or less than any other Persons of God?

I don't understand this nor how it might refer to the 3 parts of man.  The human spirit doesn't just disappear at death.  It stays with man until it is born again, if the person believes in the Savior.

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The Breath literal, in a non-creative way, is God 'The Holy Spirit'... So, when Adam chose to sin the separation of 'God's Breath' from Adam was immediate...

I don't believe God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam.  We know from 1 Thess 5:23 that man has 3 parts; body, soul and spirit.  And Heb 4:12 indicates that the soul and spirit are related but separate.  

These are the things that convince me.

Oh, btw, the literal Hebrew of Gen 2:17, which is the warning against eating the fruit, is "on the day you eat of it, DYING you shall surely die."

Two mentions of death iin the original.  The first one, dying, is a process word.  One dies of old age, or various serious illnesses.  I believe Gen 5:5 records Adam's age from the day he ate the fruit and he began to age.  We have no information about how long Adam lived before he ate the fruit.  

The second mention, die, occurred on the day he ate.  That was immediate, and refers to the human spirit literally dying when he ate.  And this is spiritual death.

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't believe God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam.

Scripture to support please

[FreeGrace]

38 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

  FreeGrace said:

I don't believe God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam.

Scripture to support please

Gen 2:7.  God breathed into Adam the soul/spirit complex.  1 Thess 5:23 mentions the 3 parts of man, so there's no reason to ignore that fact.

And it explains specifically what died when Adam ate the fruit.  The Holy Spirit can't die, nor is His leaving a body a death.

And Heb 4:12 clearly shows the soul and spirit are related but separate.  Just like the bones and marrow.

Everything fits perfectly.  So what am I missing?

[Dennis1209]

The following does not appear to be selective, but all human spirits of all time:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Animals are also given spirits:

Ecclesiastes 3:21 (KJV) Who knoweth the spirit (rûaḥ) of man that goeth upward, and the spirit (rûaḥ) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?  (c.f. Gen. 1:30, Job 12:10)

(rûaḥ). n. fem. breath, wind, spirit. Can refer to immaterial beings as well as to wind, breath, human spirits, and the spirit of God.

This word has a broad range of meanings. It can refer to wind (e.g., Exod. 10:19), to the breath of humans (e.g., Job 19:17), and of animals (e.g., Gen 7:22), to the animating spirit of humans (e.g., Psa. 31:5), and to the spirit of God, i.e., the Holy Spirit (e.g., Num 27:18). It occasionally refers to other immaterial beings; thus, 1 Sam 16:14–16 refers to an evil (רַע, raʿ) spirit (rûaḥ) sent to torment Saul, and 1 Kgs 22:18–22 tells of the host of heaven (or divine council) being assembled before Yahweh and a spirit (rûaḥ) from among them volunteering to be a lying spirit (rûaḥ) in the mouths of the prophets of King Ahab.^[1]

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

The breath of life is generally defined by any life having a windpipe and lungs. Gills, exoskeletons, etc. are excluded. In my estimation the spirit and soul are somehow connected, and at death divided:

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The animal kingdom was not God breathed, only Adam. By procreation that God breathed is passed down generation to generation, a living soul.

I have found Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary helpful as a starting point for this type of study, as well as several Systematic Theologies. All exegesis will vary with few holding the same opinion.

SPIR´IT, n. [Fr. esprit; It. spirito; Sp. espiritu; L. spiritus, from spiro, to breathe, to blow. The primary sense is to rush or drive.]

1. Primarily, wind; air in motion; hence, breath.

All bodies have spirits and pneumatical parts within them.       Bacon.

[This sense is now unusual.]

2. Animal excitement, or the effect of it; life; ardor; fire; courage; elevation or vehemence of mind. The troops attacked the enemy with great spirit. The young man has the spirit of youth. He speaks or acts with spirit. Spirits, in the plural, is used in nearly a like sense. The troops began to recover their spirits.            Swift.

3. Vigor of intellect; genius.

His wit, his beauty and his spirit.    Butler.

The noblest spirit or genius cannot deserve enough of mankind to pretend to the esteem of heroic virtue. Temple.

4. Temper; disposition of mind, habitual or temporary; as a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit; the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit.

Let us go to the house of God in the spirit of prayer.      Bickersteth.

5. The soul of man; the intelligent, immaterial and immortal part of human beings. [See Soul.]

The spirit shall return to God that gave it. Eccles. 12.

6. An immaterial intelligent substance.

Spirit is a substance in which thinking, knowing, doubting, and a power of moving do subsist.            Locke.

Hence,

7. An immaterial intelligent being.

By which he went and preached to the spirits in prison. 1 Pet. 3.

God is a spirit. John 4.

8. Turn of mind; temper; occasional state of the mind.

A perfect judge will read each work of wit,

With the same spirit that its author writ.    Pope.

9. Powers of mind distinct from the body.

In spirit perhaps he also saw

Rich Mexico, the seat of Montezume.       Milton.

10. Sentiment; perception.

Your spirit is too true, your fears too certain.        Shak.

11. Eager desire; disposition of mind excited and directed to a particular object.

God has made a spirit of building succeed a spirit of pulling down.     South.

12. A person of activity; a man of life, vigor or enterprise.

The watery kingdom is no bar

To stop the foreign spirits, but they come.           Shak.

13. Persons distinguished by qualities of the mind.

Such spirits as he desired to please, such would I choose for my judges.       Dryden.

14. Excitement of mind; animation; cheerfulness; usually in the plural. We found our friend in very good spirits. He has a great flow of spirits.

—To sing thy praise, would heaven my breath prolong,

Infusing spirits worthy such a song.           Dryden.

15. Life or strength of resemblance; essential qualities; as, to set off the face in its true spirit. The copy has not the spirit of the original.     Wotton.

16. Something eminently pure and refined.

Nor doth the eye itself,

That most pure spirit of sense, behold itself.        Shak.

17. That which hath power or energy; the quality of any substance which manifests life, activity, or the power of strongly affecting other bodies; as the spirit of wine or of any liquor.

18. A strong, pungent or stimulating liquor, usually obtained by distillation, as rum, brandy, gin, whiskey. In America, spirit, used without other words explanatory of its meaning, signifies the liquor distilled from cane-juice, or rum. We say, new spirit, or old spirit, Jamaica spirit, &c.

19. An apparition; a ghost.

20. The renewed nature of man. Matt. 26. Gal. 5.

21. The influences of the Holy Spirit. Matt. 22.

Holy Spirit, the third person in the Trinity.

SPIR´IT, v. t. To animate; to actuate; as a spirit.

So talk’d the spirited sly snake.      Milton.

[Little used.]

2. To animate with vigor; to excite; to encourage; as, civil dissensions spirit the ambition of private men.            Swift.

It is sometimes followed by up; as, to spirit up.    Middleton.

3. To kidnap.  Blackstone.

To spirit away, to entice or seduce..^[2]

 

 

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^[1] McGuire-Moushon, J. A. 2014. “Divine Beings.” In Lexham Theological Wordbook, edited by Douglas Mangum, Derek R. Brown, Rachel Klippenstein, and Rebekah Hurst. Lexham Bible Reference Series. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

^[2] Webster, Noah. 2006. In Noah Webster’s First Edition of An American Dictionary of the English Language. Anaheim, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education.

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Gen 2:7.  God breathed into Adam the soul/spirit complex.  1 Thess 5:23 mentions the 3 parts of man, so there's no reason to ignore that fact.

Not disagreeing man is a tripart being... 

 

as you can see When the Breath of God left Him the inner man's s/Spiritual connect ceased / separated out from God = death as no longer of use to soul... now only through body does the soul have input... The world now given over to satan the only Godly input to have is God's Word ...

 

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And it explains specifically what died when Adam ate the fruit.  The Holy Spirit can't die, nor is His leaving a body a death.

Death is separation from God not cessation of existence... as Scripture teaches a second death as the final separation from God in the eternal lake of fire... as the dead are brought before judgment GWT already dead how then can a second death occur? Only if death is seen as separation from God...

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And Heb 4:12 clearly shows the soul and spirit are related but separate.  Just like the bones and marrow.

Everything fits perfectly.  So what am I missing?

The Holy Spirit is represented by God as wind and life
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Revelation 11:11 (KJV)

[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

John 3:8 (KJV)

[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 20:22 (KJV)

[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:2 (KJV)

[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

God is Spirit thus when one hears breath they relate it to created substance... but how could Breath from God be created substance? The Bible indicates Breath of God as The Holy Spirit because God exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit nothing else only this... 

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Not disagreeing man is a tripart being... 

 

as you can see When the Breath of God left Him the inner man's s/Spiritual connect ceased / separated out from God = death as no longer of use to soul... now only through body does the soul have input... The world now given over to satan the only Godly input to have is God's Word ...

Your illustration was pretty cool!

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Death is separation from God not cessation of existence...

And something did DIE "on the day Adam ate...".  The only logical thing would be the spirit.  It didn't go away, but quit functioning.  Like a dead body quits functioning.  Still there but of no use.

That is why Jesus told the woman at the well one must worship God "in spirit and in truth".  iow, one must have a functioning human spirit and worship according to God's truth (the Bible).

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

as Scripture teaches a second death as the final separation from God in the eternal lake of fire... as the dead are brought before judgment GWT already dead how then can a second death occur? Only if death is seen as separation from God...

There's a better explanation of the "second death" that is solidly biblical.  From Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15, there will be a (singular) resurrection of the saved and a (singular) resurrection of the unsaved.

Rev 20:4-6 places the singular resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent, and is called the "first resurrection".  And then after 1,000 years (Millennial Reign) there will be the singular resurrection of the unsaved, because God fries all the mortals living on earth at the end of the Millennium.

So, when the unbeliever is cast into the LOF, his still mortal resurrected body will DIE AGAIN.  But not his soul.  That will "be tormented day and night, for ever and ever" per Rev 20:10.

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Yes, several verses describe the LOF as the second death.  It's the still mortal resurrected bodies of the unbelievers as they are cast into the LOF.

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The Holy Spirit is represented by God as wind and life
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Revelation 11:11 (KJV)

[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

John 3:8 (KJV)

[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 20:22 (KJV)

[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:2 (KJV)

[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

God is Spirit thus when one hears breath they relate it to created substance... but how could Breath from God be created substance? The Bible indicates Breath of God as The Holy Spirit because God exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit nothing else only this... 

The point is that the Hebrew word is used in a wide variety of ways.

But God created man in His image.  God is Triune, and man is tripartite.  Fits perfectly.

"on the day" Adam ate the fruit, something DIED.  The only thing that fits would be the human spirit.

Everyone is born spiritually dead (human spirit).  At faith in Christ, the person is "born AGAIN", "RE-generated" or "made alive".  That can only refer to the human spirit.  

[enoob57]

@FreeGrace Some areas we will just have to agree to disagree 

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

@FreeGrace Some areas we will just have to agree to disagree 

Of course!  Paul once wrote this:  One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.   Romans 14:5

The good news is that when we get to eternity, we'll have full knowledge of things we don't have now!