The purpose of the Millennium

[BlindSeeker]

On 2/2/2025 at 5:23 PM, BornAgain490 said:

Be fair, now: hayetah tohu wabohu has more than one interpretation.  It can, and does translate, "was without form and void (or empty)", consistent with the textual reading in the English translations. 

Thomas Chalmers, who began the nonsense of a gap between Gen. 1:1 and 2, was more concerned with his peers in the scientific community calling him nuts for not siding with scientists who rejected young earth creationism. 

Chalmers started a division and a cult that attracted many weak wishy-washy followers who call themselves "Bible believers."

Well, there's a judgment if I ever heard one. We can blame all this on him and move on now...

[BlindSeeker]

On 2/2/2025 at 6:45 PM, DeighAnn said:

If one believes there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth and ANOTHER Jerusalem in the following 'age',

then why is it hard to believe in one BEFORE this 'age'?  The only possible 'time' this part of the Bible fits is in the past...at least no one has been able to place it anywhere else...yet

I think an interesting question one might try to answer is, "Are there mountains in heaven?"

Eze 28:13 - Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou was upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

To me, all this speaks being one this rock, and before the anointed cherub fell from grace and sin.

Another question, "Is the new heaven and earth going to be completely new substance? Or is this one after it, like silver and gold and the saints purified by God's purging fire, going to be reforged/remade?

I don't know, but I am constantly amazed at how confidently so many couch theologians speak at times... (not you DeighAnn)

Edited February 5 by BlindSeeker

[BlindSeeker]

On 2/3/2025 at 8:08 AM, BornAgain490 said:

The six days of creation is "the beginning." 

Yes, the earth as it was when prepared for Adam. Made, like God's grace, sufficient for the duration God need it for the trying of humanity.

Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

If mere men, mud creatures, could manage to destroy this earth and compel God to purge it to destruction with "fervent heat" in order to make a new one, imagine an angelic rebellion and the stain and destruction that would cause... and would God bring His most glorious creation into that mess???

I Cor 7:11 -For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Just pondering here...

[BlindSeeker]

On 2/3/2025 at 4:50 PM, AdHoc said:

Shall we not modify  your statement a bit to say; " a Thousand years of justice with optional grace?"

I find that certainly more easy to agree with....

[BlindSeeker]

Well, I finally read through everything. Maybe tomorrow I'll have time to submit some thought I have on "the purpose of the millennium." Seems that part of the discussion hasn't been able to keep its head above the waters...

[BornAgain490]

8 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Yes, the earth as it was when prepared for Adam. Made, like God's grace, sufficient for the duration God need it for the trying of humanity.

Re 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

If mere men, mud creatures, could manage to destroy this earth and compel God to purge it to destruction with "fervent heat" in order to make a new one, imagine an angelic rebellion and the stain and destruction that would cause... and would God bring His most glorious creation into that mess???

I Cor 7:11 -For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Just pondering here...

There is no gap. 

Genesis 2:1-3

(1) Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. (2) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. (3) Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

[AdHoc]

37 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

There is no gap. 

Genesis 2:1-3

(1) Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. (2) And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. (3) Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

But it states plainly that it is the work done IN SIX DAYS - for He rested on the seventh. What happened in Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is not part of the six days. The first day was when God said "Light be".

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, BlindSeeker said:

Another question, "Is the new heaven and earth going to be completely new substance? Or is this one after it, like silver and gold and the saints purified by God's purging fire, going to be reforged/remade?

I don't know, but I am constantly amazed at how confidently so many couch theologians speak at times... (not you DeighAnn)

Welcome to the fray. You've been very diligent in catching up. Few do that.

To your question, few consider this too, but it is very important. Buried in this this God's honor. Is He Who He says He is, or can His enemies prevent Him in any way from His councils? Christianity stop at the consuming fire and go no further. But everything is explained if one jumps over what the Roman Church taught for the duration of the dark age. A least five scriptures say that the earth is made "to remain".

Some scriptures do indicate a consuming fire at the White Throne, but Psalms and Hebrews modify these statements by saying it is only the works (a garment) that are purged. Added to this, the Greek for "New" is literally "Renew". But we have additional confirmation that the original earth remains. I call upon 2nd Peter 3:3–7;

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Verse 6 alludes to an old earth replaced. The world that THEN WAS implies that it IS NOT NOW. Verse 7 says that the earth "PERISHED" and calls upon a new earth "which is now", thus completing the thought. But we know from the same record that Noah stepped onto the same earth that he left 13 months before. And thus we see the mind of the Holy Spirit. It was buried in water and counted as a New Earth. But what actually happened was that the "WORKS" (a garment - Rev.19:7-8) were destroyed. And so this picture is used likewise to show a clear conscience in 1st Peter 3:20-21.

The original earth remains and will be inhabited. But the One on the White Throne will, with His countenance, purge remembrance from the surface of the earth. The word "NEW" can also be translated; "Made Pristine"

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 2/3/2025 at 10:20 AM, AdHoc said:

If God created water first, consider this. Without a source of heat the temperature would be absolute zero.

The Bible says water was created first.

To say that there needed to be this or that, is limiting the Creator.
Heat is a concept He created, also wetness.
There is no concept that He did not create.

There was no time or temperature until He created such,
the first thing He created was water, there was absolutely nothing else,
Himself, complete nothingness, and water flowing from Him.
Then light, we could say then the light heated the water,
but that would mean some sort of creation existed before even the water,
to have things be "cold", cold is a concept.
 

The full order of creation is gleaned from
Psalms 104, Proverbs 8, Job 38 together with Genesis.

Proverbs 8:24 "depths... fountains abounding with water"

Proverbs 8:27 "the heavens... a compass upon the face of the deep"
 

Psalms 104:2
"Who covers thyself with light as a garment: who stretches out the skies
like a curtain, who lays the beams of His upper chambers (the skies) in the waters"

Psalms 104:4
"Who makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flame of fire."

From that Psalm we can conclude angels were created after the sky
was created. From Proverbs 8 we know water was made before the skies.

And that matches with Job 38:6-7
"Where are the foundations fastened? Or who laid the cornerstone
thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God
shouted for joy"

"who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should
not be moved forever." Psalms 104:5

 

The passages together show the order;
water, light, sky, angels, foundation of the earth.

 

Satan had no hand in the creation at all,
the devil is just one of the angels.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BornAgain490]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

But it states plainly that it is the work done IN SIX DAYS - for He rested on the seventh. What happened in Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is not part of the six days. The first day was when God said "Light be".

Genesis 2:1 says "the HEAVENS and the earth WERE FINISHED" in six days.

The creation of the heavens are in the beinning part of the six creation days.  There is no gap.