" Replacement Theology"

[farouk]

10 hours ago, other one said:

Where is that big Hope emoji when you need it.  The end should come pretty quickly or there may be nothing left...    Hummm,  I read about that somewhere.

It is also wise to be watching, or that big ole cement truck might run you down. The only difference in that and rapture is some short lived pain.

I don't think the church will according to Scripture be the object of God's wrath on earth ...(or anywhere else, for that matter.......)

[farouk]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

It would be wise to be watching and ready as instructed as the time is very, very, very short.

Hi @The Light Here are some good verses, right? :)

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

³ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds." (Hebrews 12-2-3)

 

[farouk]

On 1/5/2025 at 1:42 PM, Luther said:

The " church by Jesus Christ" includes  "that great cloud of witnesses" in the Old Testament, saved by faith ( Hebrews 11),  " Throughout ALL AGES". 

 

In Hebrews 11 there seems to be an implied anticipation of a dispensational difference to come,which seems to confirm the distinction between Israel and the church:

Hebrews 11.13: "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

[Luther]

42 minutes ago, farouk said:

In Hebrews 11 there seems to be an implied anticipation of a dispensational difference to come,which seems to confirm the distinction between Israel and the church:

Hebrews 11.13: "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

Let's follow that out so we can get a better idea of the context:

Hebrews 11:13-16 KJV

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

[14] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

[15] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

[16] But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I believe they just knew that this world wasn't their home, and that there was an eternal inheritance waiting for them. This would be no different than us, on the N.T. side. We're all going to be there as one body. 

[Anne2]

4 hours ago, farouk said:

Hi @Anne2 It depends on how ppl define church. Strictly speaking, the church began at Pentecost. 1 Cor. 10.32 bears out the existence of Jews, Gentiles and the church of God, as distinct entities.

The way I think they seen it

General, universal, CATHOLIC synonyms

Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

I think they are right...

Edited April 8 by Anne2

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Let's follow that out so we can get a better idea of the context:

Hebrews 11:13-16 KJV

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

[14] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

[15] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

[16] But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I believe they just knew that this world wasn't their home, and that there was an eternal inheritance waiting for them. This would be no different than us, on the N.T. side. We're all going to be there as one body. 

I agree!

Covenant of circumcision...Promises made to Abraham

An everlasting covenant of inheritance

1 chr 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

He remembers it forever

Ps 105.6  O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
7  He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth.
8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9  Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10  And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
11  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance: 

As Hebrew says they all died in faith not having received.

Why would a person hope for  what he already had/s?

Ro 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25  But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

1Th 2:19  For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Tit 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; {In: or, For }

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {glorious … : Gr. the appearance of the glory of the great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ }

Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 

Ro 4:12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
 

Edited April 8 by Anne2

[Luther]

5 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

I agree!

Covenant of circumcision...Promises made to Abraham

An everlasting covenant of inheritance

1 chr 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

He remembers it forever

Ps 105.6  O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
7  He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth.
8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9  Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10  And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
11  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance: 

As Hebrew says they all died in faith not having received.

Why would a person hope for is he already has it?

Ro 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25  But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

1Th 2:19  For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Tit 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; {In: or, For }

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {glorious … : Gr. the appearance of the glory of the great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ }

Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 

Ro 4:12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
 

Romans 4:11 KJV

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Romans 2:29 KJV

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Anne2]

53 minutes ago, Luther said:

Romans 4:11 KJV

And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Romans 2:29 KJV

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

Yes! It was sign and seal for Abraham of all that was promised him

Ro 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
 

Edited April 8 by Anne2

[farouk]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Yes! It was sign and seal for Abraham of all that was promised him

Ro 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
 

Faith was indeed the key; and a leitmotif of Hebrews 11 - detaling what stood out in the lives of OT saints - is "by faith", "by faith", "by faith"...

[other one]

4 hours ago, farouk said:

I don't think the church will according to Scripture be the object of God's wrath on earth ...(or anywhere else, for that matter.......)

I don't either, but it does say we are the object of Satan's.  I guess it might depend on what one considers the tribulation.   Is it the same as the wrath of God.   Since we are told that if we don't worship the beast and take it's mark we will be killed, I wouldn't think there would be any of us left behind whether there is a rapture or not.

I'm just taking things one day at a time and accepting what comes.  And I might add pretty much enjoying watching it all come about.