" Replacement Theology"

[farouk]

1 hour ago, other one said:

I don't either, but it does say we are the object of Satan's.  I guess it might depend on what one considers the tribulation.   Is it the same as the wrath of God.   Since we are told that if we don't worship the beast and take it's mark we will be killed, I wouldn't think there would be any of us left behind whether there is a rapture or not.

I'm just taking things one day at a time and accepting what comes.  And I might add pretty much enjoying watching it all come about.

Matthew 24.21 speaks of a unique time:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

It's not simply the ongoing tribulations of the church here, which the church experiences in its witness.

[The Light]

12 hours ago, Frits said:

Can you please indicate which Bible verse you read that says that the blindness will be taken away?

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

12 hours ago, Frits said:

 

And where does it say that the Lord Jesus Christ will come especially for the Jews?

The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation. See Revelation 5

When Jesus comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, it is the Church that is gathered from heaven and those of the 12 tribes across the earth that are gathered from the earth.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Those that come out of the great tribulation that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses........they are Jews.

Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

12 hours ago, Frits said:

 

And also where did you read that they will accept Him then?

The 144,000 that have the seal of God have accepted Jesus as Messiah.

Revelation 7

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are first fruits of the coming harvest of the Jews.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

First fruits are proof of a coming harvest.........seen here.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

[truth7t7]

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

The Church will already be in heaven before the great tribulation. See Revelation 5

When Jesus comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, it is the Church that is gathered from heaven and those of the 12 tribes across the earth that are gathered from the earth.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofields 1909 reference Bible that had Darby's false teachings in the margins, better known today as dispensationalism, head quartered at (Dallas Theological Seminary Texas)

The gathering you claim is a pre-trib rapture in Mark 13:27 is nothing more than the Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all (The End)

(The Second Coming)

(Then Shall The See The Son Of Man Coming) The Angels Shall Gather Together His Elect, The Resurrection

Mark 13:26-27KJV

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) 

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Edited April 8 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, other one said:

 Since we are told that if we don't worship the beast and take it's mark we will be killed

God's words state no such thing in my KJV Holy Bible

The world will be deceived into taking the mark and worshipping the beast through false miracles (The False Prophet) calling fire from heaven, it's not forced through the threat of death as many falsely claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Gods Divine protection of the Church on earth during the tribulation, the hour of earths temptation

The Church on earth is instructed to enter their dwelling, until the Lords indignation is past, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

[The Light]

15 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofields 1909 reference Bible that had Darby's false teachings in the margins, better known today as dispensationalism, head quartered at (Dallas Theological Seminary Texas)

 

This is just a regurgitation of what you have been taught and is certainly not the truth.

However, as far as Darby goes, he was a man that claimed that Israel was going to be reborn as a nation. There was no nation of Israel for 1700 plus years and this man of faith believed the Word of God..............and he was right. (how could he be wrong?)

The nonsense that you are regurgitating was birthed by unbelieving men that didn't believe that God would keep His promise to Israel.

YouTube Screenshot of 2 & 1/2 minute Chuck Missler exposition:

 

[The Light]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

The gathering you claim is a pre-trib rapture in Mark 13:27 is nothing more than the Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all (The End)

(The Second Coming)

Mark 13:26-27KJV

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Your claim lacks knowledge. When the gathering from heaven and earth occurs which takes place at the 6th seal...........the Church is gathered from heaven. They are in heaven before the tribulation

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) 

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 

Paul clearly taught every man in his own order. First fruits and afterward they that are Christs at His coming.

John 10

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two folds of sheep. The first fold is the Church as the Lord knows them and we know the Lord. After this fold, Christ must bring a second fold. 

Every man in his order. There are 144,000 first fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming. This is the second fold. 

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The gathering from heaven and earth occurs BEFORE the wrath of God.

2 Thes 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Then cometh the end..............after the wrath of God..........after the Day of the Lord.

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End) 

The same day Lot left Sodom it rained fire and brimstone. This is the second fold.

The day of wrath is one year long. It is the 7th seal wrath of God.

Noah is already in the ark before the flood comes, even as the Church will already be in heaven before the wrath of God. This is the first fold.

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

All that are in their graves will raise up at the Last Day. And yet in Daniel 12 we see that MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised. You probably need to understand how all are raised at the last day and many are raised at the end of the tribulation.

Daniel 12

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I don't know exactly what you believe, but I'm pretty sure that you don't believe that the 7 seals happen in order. I think you have to shift things out of order to make your end times work. 

[other one]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

God's words state no such thing in my KJV Holy Bible

The world will be deceived into taking the mark and worshipping the beast through false miracles (The False Prophet) calling fire from heaven, it's not forced through the threat of death as many falsely claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Gods Divine protection of the Church on earth during the tribulation, the hour of earths temptation

The Church on earth is instructed to enter their dwelling, until the Lords indignation is past, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 20:4 suggests a consequence tied to refusing the mark:

"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands."

 

Revelation 13:7. ESV Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, NIV It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them.

 

 

[other one]

11 hours ago, farouk said:

Matthew 24.21 speaks of a unique time:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

It's not simply the ongoing tribulations of the church here, which the church experiences in its witness.

It happens about the time that Satan and his fallen ones are tied to earth and no longer can leave.  It 's not the wrath of God, it's the wrath of satan, the beast and all that revelation 13 stuff.

[farouk]

3 hours ago, other one said:

It happens about the time that Satan and his fallen ones are tied to earth and no longer can leave.  It 's not the wrath of God, it's the wrath of satan, the beast and all that revelation 13 stuff.

Even the enemy cannot wreak one iota of damage except that God allow it in His ultimate purposes.

[other one]

47 minutes ago, farouk said:

Even the enemy cannot wreak one iota of damage except that God allow it in His ultimate purposes.

Fron what I see and hear from friends across the g)obe ok he seems to be letting a lot of things happening. And he's told us they will make war with the saints and win so we should be looking for for these things. The Holy Spirit will get us through it