" Replacement Theology"

[truth7t7]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, @truth7t7.

First, I'll just say this: If you're hanging all your beliefs on these two passages of Scripture, then I hope that you're NOT in a position where you are teaching others this stuff. God can correct one person's theology simply enough; however, when the teaching has been pushed on others, THEN it becomes a matter where one is now RESPONSIBLE to God for what he or she is teaching!

Both of these passages are NOT saying what you're concluding that they are saying.

Let's start with the basics - definitions:

The word "heaven" is NOT equivalent to the "universe"; NOR is it talking about some place other called "God's Abode," with a capital "H," "Heaven."

Forget the English for a while; it's been generalized too much.

The Greek word for "heaven" is primarily "οὐρανός." We transliterate this word into a more English-looking representation, "ouranos." Now, this is singular in number, but we will also find the plural, especially when Jews have done the writing of the Scriptures we're reading, such as 2 Peter 3: "οὐρανοὶ." The only difference is changing the "-ός" singular, masculine ending into the plural, masculine ending, "-οὶ." Notice that the accent is still put upon this syllable. So, it is translated plural: "heavens." 

The definition of this Greek word (according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance's Greek dictionary) is ...

G3772 οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os'; perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity):
—air, heaven(-ly), sky.

So, this entry has many parts: The first part, "G3772," means that it is the 3772nd entry in the Greek dictionary.
The second part, "οὐρανός," is the Greek word itself.
The third part, "ouranós," is the Greek word transliterated by their scheme of transliteration, which may be different in different dictionaries.
The fourth part, "oo-ran-os'," is the pronunciation of this word, showing the accent on the last syllable.
The fifth part, is the explanation of the word's origin (which may or may not be accurate).
The sixth part, "the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity)," is the actual definition of the word. The primary definition is first. This definition says that the meaning of the word might be EXTENDED to mean "heaven (as the abode of God)," although that is not its primary meaning. However, this "extension" can be influenced by the theology of the one making the "extension!" (Even dictionaries are works of human beings, and are therefore fallible.) This definition is also saying that the word may "imply" "happiness, power, or eternity," and again, this is at the whim of the interpreter. God may have meant for the word to be there literally! And, there may be a plae or two that "specially" used the word for "the Gospel (Christianity)," again in the understanding of the interpreter.
The final part of the entry, occurring after the colon-dash (:—), were the English words in the Authorized (King James) Version into which this Greek word were translated. This is written, "air, heaven(-ly), sky" and means that the words "air," "heaven," "heavenly," or "sky" may have been used to translate this ONE Greek word. THIS is where most of the confusion lies! Why so many words?
"Sky" includes anything we notice when we look "up."
"Air" is talking about the composite of gases that envelop our planet.
"Heaven" is vague and nebulous in meaning. We don't always KNOW what the author meant by that description; one must check it out as best as one can by its context. 

The bottom line in all this is that "ouranos" means "the sky." That's its first meaning and seldom (if ever) does it need to mean anything else. Look at how the Pharisees used it and then how Yeeshuwa` used it right afterwards:

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = ek tou ouranou = "out of-the sky"). 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, '[It will be] fair weather': for the sky (Greek: ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos = "the sky") is red. 3 And in the morning, '[It will be] foul weather to day': for the sky (Greek: ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos = "the sky") is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = tou ouranou = "of-the sky"); but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

And he left them, and departed.

Something I think is worthy of comment: Why were the SAME WORDS in Greek, "tou ouranou," translated as "from heaven" in verse 1 but "of the sky" in verse 3? Just something to think about.

They asked Him for a sign "from heaven," and He gave them WEATHER WISDOM! "A red sky at night is a sailor's delight; a red sky at morning, and sailors take warning!"

This is something the translator couldn't hide! And, it's how Yeeshuwa` used the word translated as "ouranos," which was probably the Aramaic (שְׁמַיִן = shmayin) or Hebrew equivalent (שָׁמַיִם = shaamayim)!

One more simpler definition, and this post is done:

The "earth" in 2 Peter 3:10 is the Greek word "γῆ" = gee = earth; land:

G1093 γῆ gē, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
—country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

(I use "ee" for the Greek letter eta, as opposed to the single "e" for an epsilon. That way, I don't have to hunt for a way to represent it with the long-e symbol they have in this Strong's dictionary definition.)

Thus, it was translated as "country," "earth," "earthly," "ground," "land," or "world," in the King James Version. Its primary meaning is "soil" or "DIRT!" (Reminds me of "Q" in Star Trek Next Generation who made fun of humans for calling their home, "planet DIRT!") "Soil" and even ROCKS are melted all the time in places, like Hawaii, which have active lava flows! Think about Pompeii! Peter's word was also the Hebrew (אֶרֶץ = 'erets) or Aramaic (אֲרַע = 'ara`) versions.

Your now a Hebrew/Greek scholar, imagine that, Smiles!

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Your now a Hebrew/Greek scholar, imagine that, Smiles!

Shalom, @truth7t7

Since a "scholar" is a "student," yep. I've been a student of Greek and Hebrew since the 70's. But, I'm still learning.

On the other hand, I feel that I owe you an apology: I try to remember not to use the second person pronouns, like "you" and "your" when I'm responding to others, and I failed to do that in my response above. I did not mean that to sound like an attack on you or anyone. 

When I said, "If you're hanging all your beliefs on these two passages of Scripture, then I hope that you're NOT in a position where you are teaching others this stuff," I sounded harsh and judgmental against you. For that, I'm truly sorry. I should have focused on the TEACHING, not the TEACHER.

I have a pastor-friend who believes in the "Jesus comes, burns it all up, and takes us home to Heaven" position. However, while I believe that stance is fundamentally wrong, I still love my friend and do not question his "salvation" (justification by God) nor his sincerity.

I don't want you believing that I question your justification by God nor your sincerity in what you believe, either. I just see things much more positively than that.

God doesn't destroy everything and start over; He CLEARS the way for a new beginning, and forms the New out of the old, just as He will with our bodies (us). We are RESURRECTED to new life, the old breathing bodies made into air-BLASTING bodies, and so will be His Creation. The current earth and sky came through the Flood, but all the living things upon the earth were destroyed, except those who survived on the ark.

The same will be true with the Fire. He will PURGE the earth and sky, and they, too, will come through the Fire ready for new life. The same matter becomes the New Earth and the New Sky - a Third Earth and a Third Sky (See 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.) That's my opinion based upon the OT prophecies, as well as the NT.

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I have a pastor-friend who believes in the "Jesus comes, burns it all up, and takes us home to Heaven" position.

Perhaps you need to listen to your friend, because that's exactly what scripture teaches

 Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV

6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV

5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Edited January 27 by truth7t7

[Luther]

On 1/6/2025 at 7:43 PM, Jaydub said:

 

I would like to ask, who today is the remnant in Israel? Wouldn't you say, that those who believe in Jesus, those who believe their messiah has come are the remnant? Twice you mentioned the 144,000, even if you take the 144,000 as literal, 12,000 men from the 12 tribes, we are told they follow the lamb where ever he goes, these men are Christians. Again, if you were to take them as literal, you would have 144,000 men who believe Jesus is their messiah.

The remnant today are believers, They are no Jewish Christians. I am not an American Christian or an English Christian. I am a Christian who is from America. The remnant today are Christians, believers in the messiah. Christians from Israel, not Jewish believers. Christian's who were Jews or Christians from Israel. I don't see any difference between the remnant and the "Church"

 

Amen. There is no difference between jew and non- jew. Who's a jew?....Me? You?  It doesn't matter...who knew. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:16 PM by Luther

[Luther]

On 1/6/2025 at 9:47 PM, BornAgain490 said:

Replacement means that the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant, and the New Covenant fulfilled the law and the prophets of the Old.  So, it's actually fulfillment theology. 

Israel was chosen by God to be a priestly and a holy nation set apart from the other nations. Israel was to be a light to those nations (goyim) in order to draw the nations to God.  For its part, Israel was loved by God,  but Israel was disobedient. Israel became like a despicable whore to God because it worshipped idols, sacrificed their children to be burned, and failed in the mission God had chosen it to accomplish, which was to draw the nations to God. 

In God's magnificent plan of redemption, He sent Messiah to be the True Light, to put an end to the sacrificial system, fulfill the law and the prophets, and  destroy Satan and power of sin and death.  

Now there is one body of faithful believers consisting of Jews and Gentiles from every nation, called the body of Christ, called the temple of God, called Israel of God.  

In a few short paragraphs you explained God's plan of salvation. It's really hard to understand how believers would have a disagreement on the basic fundamentals. 

[Luther]

On 1/9/2025 at 8:22 PM, Jaydub said:

I hope today, Christians are still praying for the salvation for our Jewish brothers and sisters, because it is only through Jesus that they will be saved. I don't believe those verse speak about a nations acceptance, Israel's restoration. you used Romans 11:12,15 but you left out 13 and 14

 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them

you also used 23-24

24 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

They need to come to belief in Jesus their messiah, otherwise they are rejecting not only their savior but their creator and their God.

I am not sure replacement theology is the best word to describe my beliefs, because I d0n't believe we replace Israel, but that we are joined together with believing Jews. What then do we call this body of believers? This group of believers, believing Jew and gentiles should be called Israel, but for clarity purposes we say the Church, so not to be confused with the nation of Israel. Many times this view is considered antisemitic and that is just sad, because it couldn't be further from the truth

 

 

 

"but that we are joined together with believing Jews"

Believing jews ARE Christians. 

[Anne2]

6 minutes ago, Luther said:

"but that we are joined together with believing Jews"

Believing jews ARE Christians. 

 

Absolutely

Act 26:27  King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28  Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29  And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.
 

[Retrobyter]

On 1/26/2025 at 2:05 AM, truth7t7 said:

Your now a Hebrew/Greek scholar, imagine that, Smiles!

Shalom, @truth7t7

My pastor-friend who believes in the "Jesus comes, burns it all up, and takes us home to Heaven" position, is NOT correct! 

God doesn't destroy everything and start over; He CLEARS the way for a new beginning, and forms the New out of the old, just as He did with the earth after the global Flood and just as He will with our bodies (us).

Please, follow the logic of what the Scriptures ACTUALLY SAY, not what we are taught to BELIEVE the Scriptures say! There's a BIG difference: 

The current earth and sky came through the Flood, and all life upon the earth was destroyed, according to Genesis 7-9. And while all the living things upon the earth were destroyed, except those who survived on the ark, the same will be true with the global Fire:

God will PURGE the earth and sky, and they, too, will come THROUGH the Fire ready for new life to begin! He doesn't destroy the earth; He destroys the things UPON the earth. The words "all things" ("τούτων πάντων" = "these all-things") in 2 Peter 3:11 do NOT refer to "everything in the universe!" They are "οἱ οὐρανοὶ ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσονται, καὶ γῆ καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ ἔργα" in 2 Peter 3:10, and the same matter becomes the New Earth and the New Sky - a Third Earth (the soil on top; the land) and a Third Sky (atmosphere of weather, the air). (See 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.)

Let's look carefully at 2 Peter 3:10 in the Greek:

Here's the verse in the koinee (the commoner's) Greek recorded in Scrivener's 1894 edition of the Textus Receptus (the Received Text):

10 ἥξει δὲ ἡ ἡμέρα Κυρίου ὡς κλέπτης ἐν νυκτὶ, ἐν ᾗ οἱ οὐρανοὶ ῥοιζηδὸν παρελεύσονται, στοιχεῖα δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσονται, καὶ γῆ καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ ἔργα κατακαήσεται.

This transliterates to ...

10 Heexei de hee heemera Kuriou hoos kleptees en nukti, en hee hoi ouranoi hroizeedon pareleusontai, stoicheia de kausoumena lutheesontai, kai gee kai ta en autee erga katakaeesetai.

Translated word for word, we get ...

10 Will-come but the day of-Lord like a-thief en night, in the-which the skies with-a-roar shall-pass-by, orderly-arranged-parts but being-on-fire shall-melt/dissolve, and earth/soil/land and the in it works shall-be-burned-up.

Rearranged in English word order, we get ...

10 But the day of-Lord will-come like a-thief in night, in the-which the skies shall-pass-by with-a-roar, but orderly-arranged-parts shall-melt/dissolve being-on-fire, and earth/soil/land and the works in it shall-be-burned-up.

So, in verse 11, Peter is summarizing this into a single phrase, "τούτων οὺν πάντων λυομένων," "toutoon oun pantoon luomenoon," "these therefore all-things shall-be-melted/dissolved" or "therefore all- these -things shall-be-melted/dissolved," and the word "since" was added to show its relationship to the rest of the verse.

Both of these words, lutheesontai and luomenoon, are based upon ...

G3089 λύω lýō, loo'-o; a primary verb; to "loosen" (literally or figuratively):
—break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-)loose, melt, put off. Compare G4486.

BlueLetterBible adds this as an "outline of biblical usage":

I. to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened
I. 1. bandages of the feet, the shoes,
I. 2. of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony
I. 3. of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married

II. to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free
II. 1. of one bound up (swathed in bandages)
II. 2. bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go

III. to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together
III. 1. an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up
III. 2. laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds
III. 3. to annul, subvert
III. 4. to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act
III. 5. to declare unlawful
III. 6. to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy
III. 7. to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy
III. 8. metaph.(metaphorically), to overthrow, to do away with

Therefore, its primary meaning is not "to destroy" but "to UNTIE!" We don't "destroy" an assembly (or church) when we dismiss it; we "break it up!"

That's my opinion based upon the OT prophecies, as well as those in the NT, and upon the definitions!

One must be careful using the word "all." Although it COULD mean "everything," it is frequently LIMITED by its context. For instance, when we say "all WITHIN the room," we've just set a limit to everything WITHIN that room. It doesn't apply to anything outside of that room!

I guess the REAL key lessons I've been learning is that we don't "HAVE souls"; we "ARE souls," that is, we "ARE air-breathing creatures!" 

Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The word "soul" is the Hebrew word "nefesh" (or "nephesh") ("נֶפֶשׁ"):

H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh, neh'-fesh; from H5314; properly, a BREATHING creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
—any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead(-ly), desire, × (dis-) contented, × fish, ghost, greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, slay, soul, tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, × would have it. (emphasis mine)

This entry notes that it is "from H5314":

H5314 נָפַשׁ nâphash, naw-fash'; a primitive root; to BREATHE; passively, to be BREATHED upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a CURRENT OF AIR):
—(be) refresh selves (-ed). (emphasis mine)

(I transliterate this as "naafash.")

God didn't  "put" a soul into the man; God FORMED the man of dust FROM the ground, puffed into his nostrils the puff of living things, and the man of dust BECAME a living AIR-BREATHER, a living "soul!"

This doesn't change when one moves on to the Greek:

The Greek word for "soul" is "psuchee" (or "psychḗ") ("ψυχή"):

G5590 ψυχή psychḗ, psoo-khay'; from G5594; BREATH, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: THESE TERMS THUS EXACTLY CORRESPOND RESPECTIVELY TO THE HEBREW H5315, H7307 and H2416):—heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

First, understand that one's theology will also influence how one will write a definition; so, we must remember that even the writers of definitions are HUMAN BEINGS and are thus susceptible to error. We ALL sin. We ALL make mistakes! "Let God be true, and every man a liar!" (Romans 3:4).

Even when I check everything I've written - TWICE - I STILL find errors in what I wrote! However, I am VERY CAREFUL AND METICULOUS - to a fault! And, if I see an error, I will go back and correct it, if I can. If it's a minor change, I just change it. If it's a major revision, I will annotate it as being changed. I've even noticed that sometimes in the correcting of one error, I will introduce a different error into my writing! We do the best we can and commit the rest into the hands of the LORD.

Note that this entry also says the word comes "from G5594":

G5594 ψύχω psýchō, psoo'-kho; a primary verb; to BREATHE (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):
—wax cold.

BUT, the part of the Greek definition that says, "from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul," is questionable. That understanding comes from theological philosophy, not the Bible. The ONLY place I see the "soul" - the "air-breathing creature" - being "immortal" in the Scriptures is in the Resurrection!

G4151 πνεῦμα pneûma, pnyoo'-mah; from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:
—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

1 Corinthians 15:35-57 (KJV)

35 But some [man] will say,

"How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest (put in the ground) is not quickened (brought back to life), except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Here, Paul likened the death and resurrection to sowing grains, whether of wheat or something else, like barley, flax, etc.

39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but

[there is] one [kind of] flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes,
[and] another of birds.
40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial:

but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

41 [There is] one glory of the sun,
and another glory of the moon,
and another glory of the stars:
for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead.

So, there are different types of flesh - human, beastial, piscine, and avian. And, there are also bodies "above the sky" ("celestial"), just as there are bodies "above the ground" ("terrestrial"). Among these are the sun, the moon, and the stars.

"Glory" is the Greek word "doxa" and it means ...

G1391 δόξα dóxa, dox'-ah; from the base of G1380; glory (as VERY APPARENT), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective):
—dignity, glory(-ious), honour, praise, worship.

It refers to that which makes something "very apparent" or "stand out" from the rest, like a bright star among the blackness of space, or the rich oppulence of a king among the drab, plainness of poor men. Stars shine in many bands of light, including visible light, but human beings and animals only give off lightwaves in the infrared region, "HEAT!"

It is sown in corruption (decay); it is raised in incorruption (unable to decay again):
43 It is sown in dishonour (obscurity;defeat); it is raised in glory (dignity):
it is sown in weakness (frailty); it is raised in power (strength):
44 It is sown a natural body (σῶμα ψυχικόν = sooma psuchikon = an-air-breathing body); it is raised a spiritual body (σῶμα πνευματικόν = sooma pneumatikon = an-air-blasting body, blasting like a wind).

There is a natural body (σῶμα ψυχικόν), and there is a spiritual body (σῶμα πνευματικόν). 45 And so it is written,

"The first man Adam was made a living soul (Greek: 'εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν' = 'eis psucheen zoosan' = 'into an-air-breathing-creature living')" (Genesis 2:7);

the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit (Greek: "εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν" = "eis pneuma zoo-opoioun" = "into a-wind/an-air-blasting-creature life-producing").

46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual (Greek: "τὸ πνευματικὸν" = "to pneumatikon" = "the air-blasting-creature", but that which is natural (Greek: "τὸ ψυχικόν" = "to psuchikon" = "the air-breathing-creature"); and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy (Greek: "ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός" = "ek gees choikos" = "out of-[the]-earth/soil made-of-dirt"): the second man [is] the Lord from heaven (Greek: "ἐξ οὐρανοῦ" = "ex ouranou" = "out of-[the]-sky"). 48 As [is] the earthy (Greek: "ὁ χοϊκός" = "ho choikos" = "the one-made-of-dirt"), such [are] they also that are earthy (Greek: "οἱ χοϊκοί" = "hoi choikoi" = "the ones-made-of-dirt"): and as [is] the heavenly (Greek: "ὁ ἐπουράνιος" = "ho epouranios" = "the one-of-above-the-sky"), such [are] they also that are heavenly (Greek: "οἱ ἐπουράνιοι" = "hoi epouranioi" = "the ones-of-above-the-sky"). 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy (Greek: "τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ" = "teen eikona tou choikou" = "the likeness of-the one-made-of-dirt"), we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Greek: "τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου" = "teen eikona tou epouraniou" = "the likeness of-the one-of-above-the-sky").

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery;

We shall not all sleep, (i.e., some will still be awake)
but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we (both still living and newly living) shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible (Greek: "τὸ φθαρτὸν τοῦτο" = "to ftharton touto" = "the decomposition this-one") must put on incorruption (Greek: "ἀφθαρσίαν" = "aftharsian" = "incorruption/inability to decay"),
and this mortal (Greek: "τὸ θνητὸν τοῦτο" = "to thneeton touto" = "the mortality this-one") [must] put on immortality (Greek: "ἀθανασίαν" = "athanasian" = "immortality/inability to die").
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

"Death is swallowed up in victory." (Isaiah 25:8)

55 "O death, where [is] thy sting (stinger)? O grave, where [is] thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14)

56 The sting (stinger) of death [is] sin;
and the strength of sin [is] the law.

57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This also taught me that we don't "go to Heaven" when we die! Instead, we go to our graves and await the RESURRECTION! And, after the Resurrection, that which is CALLED "heaven," the New Jerusalem, "COMES to us!"

Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (Greek: "καταβαίνουσαν ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ" = "katabainousan apo tou Theou ek tou ouranou" = "descending away-from the God out of-the sky"), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men (Greek: "ἡ σκηνὴ τοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων" = "hee skeenee tou Theou meta toon anthroopoon" = "the tent of-the God with the men"), and he will dwell with them (Greek: "σκηνώσει μετ᾽αὐτῶν" = "skeenoosei met' autoon" = "He-will-tent with them"), and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them (Greek: "αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς ἔσται μετ᾽ αὐτῶν" = "autos ho Theos estai met' autoon" = "He the God shall-be with them"), [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

That's what we are to anticpate, not this "going to Heaven" nonsense.

[Retrobyter]

56 minutes ago, Luther said:

"but that we are joined together with believing Jews"

Believing jews ARE Christians. 

Shalom, @Luther.

It's just backwards, bro'. "Christians" are believing Jews! Why? Because we've been ADOPTED into the Family! We BECOME Jews through our Messiah Yeeshuwa` who has graffed us into the Olive Tree! Through His finished work, we are "accepted in the Beloved!"

[Anne2]

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 11:3  Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.