" Replacement Theology"

[Luther]

Ephesians 3:21

Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The " church by Jesus Christ" includes  "that great cloud of witnesses" in the Old Testament, saved by faith ( Hebrews 11),  " Throughout ALL AGES". 

Up until the last 150 years, there was never talk of a " replacement" of anyone. The eternal body of Christ was always understood to include many of those from the Nation of Israel, but never the whole nation. That teaching is a very new one in the scope of church history. 

The " great nation" that comes from Abraham ( Genesis 12:2) is the foreshadowing of the seed of Christ 

Galatians 3:16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

If we are in Christ, then we are the  "spiritual" seed of Abraham, the " father of us all" ( who I would consider a picture of God Himself):

Romans 4:16

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"

The Nation of Israel strived to become right with God through the law, and through their disobedience and perversion of it  (by their own traditions),  They perished. The only promises God has now for any nation is the " Holy nation of those called out of darkness"              (1 Peter 2:9). 

Did you know that God fulfilled his promise of a land inheritance to National Israel about 3200 years ago?

Joshua 21:43-45

And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

[44]And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

[45]There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

So this is God's Word, which is the final Word. So what happened?  Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel? " All came to pass". 

I believe I know what happened. The churches of our day have fallen prey to the indoctrination from the commentary of the Scofield Bible over 100 years ago. I call it the " Scofield spell". 

Of course many are going to disagree with me. I hope that this forum will allow the exchange of controversial beliefs. I always intend to be respectful of what others believe. Maybe this is the first time someone is hearing about this. There is a lot to look into, because the very nature of what's going on today before our eyes is the result of an extreme effort to subvert classical church/ Bible  teachings. 

[lrs68]

It's a false doctrine.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel? "

There is a branch of Biblical Theology known as Israelology. I recall the late Chuck Missler using the term. I've had some instruction about it as follows:

From my notes:

The Book of Revelation, the final book in the New Testament, provides a vivid and symbolic portrayal of the end times. The depiction of Israel in Revelation is deeply intertwined with themes of prophecy, eschatology, and the ultimate fulfillment of God's promises.

• Israel's Role in Prophecy: Israel is central to the unfolding of end-time events. Revelation references Israel through symbolic language, often depicting it as a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1). This imagery draws from Old Testament symbols and highlights Israel's significant role in God's redemptive plan.

• The 144,000: Revelation 7:4-8 speaks of 144,000 individuals from the twelve tribes of Israel who are sealed and protected during the tribulation. This represents a remnant of Israel that remains faithful to God.

• Restoration and Reconciliation: The book also emphasizes the ultimate restoration and reconciliation of Israel. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem, which features twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the inclusion of Israel in the new, eternal kingdom.

The portrayal of Israel in Revelation shows how significant the typology of God's People is in biblical prophecy, and that the fulfillment of God's covenant promises is something to expect.

Well-known Bible teacher and author, Chuck Missler, has extensively explored eschatology (the study of the end times) and Israel's role in it. Here's a brief summary of his teachings on this topic:

1. Israel's Prominent Role: Missler emphasizes that Israel is central to end-time prophecy. He often refers to the Seventy Weeks Prophecy in Daniel, which he believes outlines a specific timeline for Israel's history and the end times.

2. The Church and Israel: Missler argues that God's plans for Israel and the Church are distinct but interconnected. He suggests that the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation, a period of intense suffering described in Revelation, while Israel will experience it.

3. The 144,000: He highlights the significance of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8, interpreting them as a remnant of Israel who remain faithful during the tribulation.

4. The New Jerusalem: Missler often discusses Revelation 21, where the New Jerusalem is described with twelve gates bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the restoration and inclusion of Israel in God's eternal kingdom.

5. The Battle of Armageddon: He teaches that the Battle of Armageddon will be a literal, climactic battle involving Israel and the forces of evil, leading to the ultimate victory of God's kingdom.

Missler's teachings are detailed and draw heavily from biblical texts, encouraging a literal interpretation of prophecy. His work aims to provide clarity on the complex and often debated subject of end-time events and Israel's role in them.

[Luther]

3 hours ago, Michael37 said:

There is a branch of Biblical Theology known as Israelology. I recall the late Chuck Missler using the term. I've had some instruction about it as follows:

From my notes:

The Book of Revelation, the final book in the New Testament, provides a vivid and symbolic portrayal of the end times. The depiction of Israel in Revelation is deeply intertwined with themes of prophecy, eschatology, and the ultimate fulfillment of God's promises.

• Israel's Role in Prophecy: Israel is central to the unfolding of end-time events. Revelation references Israel through symbolic language, often depicting it as a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1). This imagery draws from Old Testament symbols and highlights Israel's significant role in God's redemptive plan.

• The 144,000: Revelation 7:4-8 speaks of 144,000 individuals from the twelve tribes of Israel who are sealed and protected during the tribulation. This represents a remnant of Israel that remains faithful to God.

• Restoration and Reconciliation: The book also emphasizes the ultimate restoration and reconciliation of Israel. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem, which features twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the inclusion of Israel in the new, eternal kingdom.

The portrayal of Israel in Revelation shows how significant the typology of God's People is in biblical prophecy, and that the fulfillment of God's covenant promises is something to expect.

Well-known Bible teacher and author, Chuck Missler, has extensively explored eschatology (the study of the end times) and Israel's role in it. Here's a brief summary of his teachings on this topic:

1. Israel's Prominent Role: Missler emphasizes that Israel is central to end-time prophecy. He often refers to the Seventy Weeks Prophecy in Daniel, which he believes outlines a specific timeline for Israel's history and the end times.

2. The Church and Israel: Missler argues that God's plans for Israel and the Church are distinct but interconnected. He suggests that the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation, a period of intense suffering described in Revelation, while Israel will experience it.

3. The 144,000: He highlights the significance of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8, interpreting them as a remnant of Israel who remain faithful during the tribulation.

4. The New Jerusalem: Missler often discusses Revelation 21, where the New Jerusalem is described with twelve gates bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the restoration and inclusion of Israel in God's eternal kingdom.

5. The Battle of Armageddon: He teaches that the Battle of Armageddon will be a literal, climactic battle involving Israel and the forces of evil, leading to the ultimate victory of God's kingdom.

Missler's teachings are detailed and draw heavily from biblical texts, encouraging a literal interpretation of prophecy. His work aims to provide clarity on the complex and often debated subject of end-time events and Israel's role in them.

Yeah, it's dispensationalism, and as a student of the Bible, I totally reject it.  Sorry, few teachings do more damage to the body of Christ than this one. We are the chosen of God. Only a REMNANT of jews will be saved. That's what the church taught for the last 1900 years. I thought I laid it out pretty good. And those were my notes.

This is the confusion of the "spiritual" tribulation of the end,

Matthew 24:11

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The difference between today's teaching of the end compared to 100 years ago is that there won't be an end. There is an additional period of time after Christ comes to accommodate a nation of people who rejected God. The church ALWAYS taught that when Jesus comes, it's the end of the world. That's why you read "NOW is the day of salvation". 

Edited Monday at 12:10 AM by Luther
Really needed to add to this

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

I thought I laid it out pretty good.

You asked: "Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel?"

The answer is found in Revelation, which is really good.

[Luther]

20 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

You asked: "Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel?"

The answer is found in Revelation, which is really good.

I'm sorry Michael do you wish to elaborate? The 144,000? I would see that as the fullness of the nations. Where did this one track vision of Israel come from? Where are God's people in prophecy? To me that's what is going on nowadays. The only thing that has to happen next is Jesus coming for His church, after a short period of intense spiritual tribulation. 

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

I'm sorry Michael do you wish to elaborate?

No need when the blessing of Revelation is available to those who read, hear, and keep it.

Rev 1:1-3  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,  (2)  who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.  (3)  Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Luther said:

Ephesians 3:21

Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The " church by Jesus Christ" includes  "that great cloud of witnesses" in the Old Testament, saved by faith ( Hebrews 11),  " Throughout ALL AGES". 

Up until the last 150 years, there was never talk of a " replacement" of anyone. The eternal body of Christ was always understood to include many of those from the Nation of Israel, but never the whole nation. That teaching is a very new one in the scope of church history.

Shalom, @Luther.

And, that would be an error of misunderstanding the scope of the Nation of Israel. They are the bloodline of Avraham, through Yitschaq and Ya`aqoV (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). However, this teaching is forgetting the POWER OF THE RESURRECTION!

7 hours ago, Luther said:

The " great nation" that comes from Abraham ( Genesis 12:2) is the foreshadowing of the seed of Christ 

This, too, is a misunderstanding. See below:

7 hours ago, Luther said:

Galatians 3:16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

If we are in Christ, then we are the  "spiritual" seed of Abraham, the " father of us all" ( who I would consider a picture of God Himself):

See, THIS is a problem. We are NOT the "seed of Christ," NOR are we the "'spiritual' seed of Avraham." The "SEED" IS Christ; He IS the Messiah! He doesn't say "to seeds" as "seeds" of many, but "SEED" as of ONE! Israel's SEED is CHRIST, the MESSIAH! (The two titles are synonymous; the only difference is the language of origin.)

7 hours ago, Luther said:

Romans 4:16

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"

The Nation of Israel strived to become right with God through the law, and through their disobedience and perversion of it  (by their own traditions),  They perished. The only promises God has now for any nation is the " Holy nation of those called out of darkness"              (1 Peter 2:9). 

Did you know that God fulfilled his promise of a land inheritance to National Israel about 3200 years ago?

Joshua 21:43-45

[43] And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

[44] And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

[45] There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

So this is God's Word, which is the final Word. So what happened?  Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel? " All came to pass". 

Yes ... and, no.

Read the context around these three verses, and the context extends between books, recognizing that Judges is a CONTINUATION of the story after Joshua dies:

Judges 1:16-36 (KJV)

16 Now the children of the Kenite, Moses' father-in-law, went up from the City of Palms with the children of Judah into the Wilderness of Judah, which [lies] in the South [near] Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. 17 And Judah went with his brother Simeon, and they attacked the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it. So the name of the city was called Hormah. 18 Also Judah took Gaza with its territory, Ashkelon with its territory, and Ekron with its territory. 19 So the LORD was with Judah. And they drove out the mountaineers, but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland, because they had chariots of iron. 20 And they gave Hebron to Caleb, as Moses had said. Then he expelled from there the three sons of Anak. 21 But the children of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites who inhabited Jerusalem; so the Jebusites dwell with the children of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day.

22 And the house of Joseph also went up against Bethel, and the LORD [was] with them. 23 So the house of Joseph sent men to spy out Bethel. (The name of the city [was] formerly "Luz.") 24 And when the spies saw a man coming out of the city, they said to him, "Please show us the entrance to the city, and we will show you mercy." 25 So he showed them the entrance to the city, and they struck the city with the edge of the sword; but they let the man and all his family go. 26 And the man went to the land of the Hittites, built a city, and called its name "Luz," which [is] its name to this day.

27 However, Manasseh did not drive out [the inhabitants of] Beth Shean and its villages, or Taanach and its villages, or the inhabitants of Dor and its villages, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its villages, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its villages; for the Canaanites were determined to dwell in that land. 28 And it came to pass, when Israel was strong, that they put the Canaanites under tribute, but did not completely drive them out.

29 Nor did Ephraim drive out the Canaanites who dwelt in Gezer; so the Canaanites dwelt in Gezer among them.

30 Nor did Zebulun drive out the inhabitants of Kitron or the inhabitants of Nahalol; so the Canaanites dwelt among them, and were put under tribute.

31 Nor did Asher drive out the inhabitants of Acco or the inhabitants of Sidon, or of Ahlab, Achzib, Helbah, Aphik, or Rehob. 32 So the Asherites dwelt among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land; for they did not drive them out.

33 Nor did Naphtali drive out the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh or the inhabitants of Beth Anath; but they dwelt among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land. Nevertheless the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh and Beth Anath were put under tribute to them.

34 And the Amorites forced the children of Dan into the mountains, for they would not allow them to come down to the valley; 35 and the Amorites were determined to dwell in Mount Heres, in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim; yet when the strength of the house of Joseph became greater, they were put under tribute.

36 Now the boundary of the Amorites [was] from the Ascent of Akrabbim, from Sela, and upward.

They didn't hold on to that Land, for they were constantly attacked and controlled by other nations around them. This in itself is proof that the PERMANENT keeping of the Land had not yet been realized. Syrians to the north, the Philistines to the west, Ammon and Moab to the east, and even Edom to the south, were those who the judges would lead the children of Israel throughout the 430 years that the judges ruled Israel for God. Even into the times of the kings, beginning with the reign of Shauwl ("Saul"), the surrounding peoples were a thorn in Israel's side!

The pattern of Judges was this:

Judges 2:1-23 (KJV)

1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said,

"I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, 'I will never break my covenant with you. 2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars': but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? 3 Wherefore I also said, 'I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.'"

4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.

5 And they called the name of that place "Bochim" ("Weepers; Weeping"): and they sacrificed there unto the LORD. 6 And when Joshua had let the people go, the children of Israel went every man unto his inheritance to possess the land.

7 And (1) the people served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the LORD, that he did for Israel. 8 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, [being] an hundred and ten years old. 9 And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash. 10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and (2) there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.

11 And (3) the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: 12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that [were] round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. 13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth. 14 And (4) the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies. 15 Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and (5) they were greatly distressed.

16 Nevertheless (6) the LORD raised up judges, which delivered them out of the hand of those that spoiled them. 17 And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; [but] they did not so. 18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then (1) the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them. 19 And it came to pass, (2) when the judge was dead, (3) [that] they returned, and corrupted [themselves] more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way.

20 (4) And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and he said,

"Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice; 21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: 22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep [it], or not."

23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

This cycle was a pattern throughout the book of Judges:

(1) They'd be fine while the judge and that generation was alive.
(2) The judge would die and (3) a new generation would come along and sin in idolatry.
(4) The LORD would punish them with oppression from the people surrounding them.
(5) They would cry out to the LORD.
(6) The LORD would send them another judge. And the LORD through the judge would deliver them from their enemies.

7 hours ago, Luther said:

I believe I know what happened. The churches of our day have fallen prey to the indoctrination from the commentary of the Scofield Bible over 100 years ago. I call it the " Scofield spell". 

While C. I. Scofield did propagate the indoctrination of dispensationalism, he was NOT its only sourse, NOR was he the source of the "secret rapture." In an interview that Albert Mohler ("Thinking In Public" host and President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY) had with Crawford Gribben, the professor of History at Queen's University in Belfast, Ireland, on the topic "J. N. Darby and the Roots of Dispensationalism," Professor Gribbens, who is an expert on the subject of the Plymouth Brethren, said,

'Well, I think what’s really remarkable about this is that Darby is in some ways an “anti-dispensationalist!" So the idea of dividing redemptive history into seven stages predates the 19th century. It’s there in 18th century. Oh yeah, sure. Arguably it’s even in the 17th century. And Darby understands that in some of his earliest writing, he speaks about this idea of dividing redemptive history into seven stages. He doesn’t teach that. He doesn’t believe that. In fact, he doesn’t want to call these stages “dispensations,” either. He argues there’s basically three great ages, the Jewish age, the Christian age, and the millennial age that follows. He argues, yes, there are dispensations and is the thinking about dispensations changes - evolves - through the years. But his mature conclusion is there’s only three dispensations - prophets, priests and kings. These dispensations are only active between the flood and the cross, and they’re only offered to Israel.

 'So the irony is that it’s not Darby, but is reformed critics [which include Scofield and D. L. Moody among others] who describe the present age as a dispensation.

'The other curiosity of all of this is that historians tend to say that Darby invented the idea of the secret rapture. He never claimed to have invented the idea of the secret rapture. In fact, the exclusive brethren KNEW who invented the doctrine of the secret rapture. It was Thomas Tweedy, an Irish brethren author. And one of the reasons we know that is because William Kelly, who edited J. N. Darby’s works, wrote a pamphlet called "The Rapture." Where did it come from? And he tells us that Darby told him it was Thomas Tweedy. So the two great things we all think we know about Darby, he’s a father of dispensationalism. He invented the secret rapture. It turns out, in fact, neither of those are true!'

7 hours ago, Luther said:

Of course many are going to disagree with me. I hope that this forum will allow the exchange of controversial beliefs. I always intend to be respectful of what others believe. Maybe this is the first time someone is hearing about this. There is a lot to look into, because the very nature of what's going on today before our eyes is the result of an extreme effort to subvert classical church/ Bible  teachings. 

I'm coming late to the game, but I'll try to catch up. In any case, I look forward to a respectful exchange of controversial beliefs.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Luther said:

...

So this is God's Word, which is the final Word. So what happened?  Why this belief that God has something yet to promise National Israel? 

Shalom, @Luther.

It's NOT a promise to "national Israel" as much as it is a promise to the "MESSIAH of God!" Consider first the Davidic Covenant found in 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17:

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains."

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that [is] in thine heart; for the LORD [is] with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,

5 "Go and tell my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD,

"'"Shalt THOU build ME an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in [any] house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all [the places] wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?' "'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David,

"'Thus saith the LORD of hosts,

"'"I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great [men] that [are] in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges [to be] over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies."

"'Also the LORD telleth thee that HE will make THEE an house.

12 "'"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit (be twisted into) iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Here's a couple of things to understand here:

First, this is NOT talking about Shlomoh ("Solomon") being that "seed." It cannot be! Shlomoh was made a king over Israel BEFORE David died! (See 1 Kings 1:5-53.) This is talking about the ULTIMATE "seed" of David, the Messiah.

Second, consider what the word "Messiah" means: First, the English word "Messiah" is only found twice in two verses, Daniel 9:25-26. HOWEVER, the Hebrew word translated as "Messiah" is found in MULTIPLE places as the English word "anointed." It is found for people in Exodus 29:29; Leviticus 4:3, 5, 16; 6:20, 22; 7:36; 8:12; Numbers 3:3; 35:25; 1 Samuel 2:10, 35; 10:1; 12:3, 5; 15:17; 16:6, 13; 24:6, 10; 26:9, 11, 16, 23; 2 Samuel 1:14, 16, 21; 2:4, 7; 3:39; 5:3, 17; 12:7, 20; 19:10, 21; 22:51; 23:1; 1 Kings 1:39, 45; 5:1; 9:3, 6, 12; 11:12; 23:30; 1 Chronicles 11:3; 14:8; 16:22; 29:22; 2 Chronicles 6:42; 22:7; 23:11; 28:15; Psalm 2:2; 18:50; 20:6; 28:8; 45:7; 84:9; 89:20, 38, 51; 92:10; 105:15; 132:10, 17; Isaiah 45:1; 61:1; Lamentations 4:20; Ezekiel 16:9; 28:14; Habakkuk 3:13; and Zechariah 4:14.

This word is the Hebrew word "מָשִׁיחַ," transliterated as "Maashiyach," meaning "anointed [one]," but stemming from "מָשַׁח," transliterated as "maashach," meaning "to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by implication, to consecrate; also to paint." It doesn't mean just to "pour oil" on a person; it also means to "RUB the oil onto the skin or into the hair!" Every priest, every king, and many of the prophets of God were so "anointed" with oil, and not just any oil but the special oil prepared for holy anointing, recorded in Exodus 30:22-33. Thus, EVERY ONE of these men so anointed was a "מָשִׁיחַ," a "Maashiyach!" However, there will only be ONE such individual who will fulfill the Davidic Covenant! He will be the ULTIMATE Maashiyach, the One who reigns FOREVER!

Third, remember that this word was translated into Greek as "χριστὸς," transliterated as "christos," also meaning "an anointed one." We anglicize this as "christ," and when referring to the ULTIMATE Maashiyach, we capitalize it as "Christ." Thus, EVERY ONE of these men were "christs!" They were REAL "christs," neither "false" nor "anti-" nor "pretend" christs! They were just not the ULTIMATE "Christ!"

And, the One we know as THE "Christ," was Yeeshuwa` or "Jesus!" Before His conception, Gabriel said this about Him:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

So, this is the RESTATING of the Davidic Covenant above! He is the SEED of David, predicted in the Davidic Covenant! He must reign over the house of Jacob FOREVER! Of HIS Kingdom there shall be no end! YHWH Elohiym ("the LORD God") shall give unto HIM the throne of His ancestor David!

That is the significance of Him being called both "the Son of David" and "the Son of God!" HE must be Israel's King, as much as His Father David was, and MORE! So, if He's to be the KING, He must have His SUBJECTS! The nation of Israel has been prophesied to be that people FOREVER! We who are Gentile believers are GRAFFED INTO that "Olive Tree" of His Kingdom! That's the significance of Romans 9-11! We are Gentile "add-ons!" He is to be the "KING OF KINGS," which a term meaning "World Emperor," as much as it was for Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:7) or for Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12)! He becomes the King of all the nations of the earth! "Every knee shall bow!"

The only other thing one might need is to recognize that the term "remnant" has a TIME QUALIFIER! WHEN is "only a remnant will be left?" I submit that it was in the FIRST CENTURY when Jerusalem was destroyed and the children of Israel were scattered to the nations in the Diaspora! God has REBUILT the nation over time!

I hope this falls on open ears!

 

[Jaydub]

On 1/5/2025 at 12:35 PM, Michael37 said:

The 144,000: Revelation 7:4-8 speaks of 144,000 individuals from the twelve tribes of Israel who are sealed and protected during the tribulation. This represents a remnant of Israel that remains faithful to God.

 

On 1/5/2025 at 12:35 PM, Michael37 said:

The 144,000: He highlights the significance of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8, interpreting them as a remnant of Israel who remain faithful during the tribulation.

I would like to ask, who today is the remnant in Israel? Wouldn't you say, that those who believe in Jesus, those who believe their messiah has come are the remnant? Twice you mentioned the 144,000, even if you take the 144,000 as literal, 12,000 men from the 12 tribes, we are told they follow the lamb where ever he goes, these men are Christians. Again, if you were to take them as literal, you would have 144,000 men who believe Jesus is their messiah.

The remnant today are believers, They are no Jewish Christians. I am not an American Christian or an English Christian. I am a Christian who is from America. The remnant today are Christians, believers in the messiah. Christians from Israel, not Jewish believers. Christian's who were Jews or Christians from Israel. I don't see any difference between the remnant and the "Church"