Downfall of America and Israel in 2027

[The Light]

55 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

No, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to comprehend that Matt 24, Mark 13, 1 Thess, 2 Thess and all the rest, speak to 2 different events.  

pre trib rapture makes it IMPOSSIBLE for us to pick up our cross and follow Him.  Pre trib rapture makes it impossible for us to be found worthy.  Pre trib rapture makes us seek to SAVE OUR LIVES...pre trib rapture doesn't work with all we are taught...
 

 

How is it that you are unable to comprehend that the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal for a harvest IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days, has absolutely nothing WHATSOEVER to do with a pretribulation rapture?

How can the coming of Jesus immediately AFTER the tribulation, have anything to do with a pretribulation rapture?

The point that is being made is that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 immediately AFTER the tribulation is not the coming of Jesus with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19.

Your ingrained prejudice keeps you from seeing the truth of the scripture.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

The 6th seal ANNOUNCES Christ is coming...show me where HE HAS ARRIVED in the 6th seal. 

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

 

If Jesus comes in the 6th seal, THEN WHO OPENS THE 7TH SEAL?

Maybe you are missing the FACT that there is a great multitude in heaven some of whom have come out of great tribulation in Revelation 7, after the 6th seal is opened. Which means of course that Jesus has returned to heaven. The 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God is the one-year Day of the Lord.

Are you saying that Jesus is unable to open the 7th seal if He comes at the 6th seal and returns to heaven?

[The Light]

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

You are down a deep rabbit-hole my brother, and none of that is of the bible. There can nor will be a worldwide kingdom, God has never stated that, that's just a very bad understanding by a lot of people (I admit) but still an error.

Of course it's in the Bible. 

No man can buy nor sell without the mark of the beast. That is world wide. There will be a world government after the pretribulation rapture.........new world order.

For you to think there will not be a world government is quite puzzling. What rabbit hole did you climb in?

The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun.

The first world government was Babylon.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

For starters, thinking this through would let you know that 1/3 of the world will be set ablaze, because 1/3 of the worlds trees burn. Thinking more would tell us God's plan is to separate the New World and the Old World, and thus the fires are in the New World, the Americas is where the Asteroid hits and as at breaks apart it catches tress ablaze, thereby the catastrophic emergencies in the USA will mean our Gov. will not have time to be meddling in the E.U. Conquering of the Mediterranean Sea Region & Israel. 

That asteroid has you so confused. It occurs during the one year Day of the Lord, wrath of God.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

The WHOLE EARTH being speaken about is always the Mediterranean Sea Region, that is why every Beast comes out of the Great (Mediterranean) Sea in Dan. 7, that is why Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the Great was said to conquer the whole world (really EARTH) being spoken about, but the earth is only the Mediterranean Sea Region. In Revelation 13, we know its a further report on the Little Horn Beast as told in Daniel 7, so the WHOLE EARTH is still only talking about the Mediterranean Sea Region. In Dan 11:44-45 it says he hears bad tidings out of the East (China) and North (Russia). In the Magog & Magog war God destroys 5/6 of the Russian Army, why not 6/6 of the Arsenal ? Because they have Nuclear Weapons, as does China, no one man is ever going to conquer the WHOLE WORLD, its just not going to happen, its not feasible, and God never stated he would, the WHOLE EARTH is speaking about in and around the Meditteranean Sea Region (MSR), now REREAD Dan. 11:40-45,

Hmmm.

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

NAME the NATIONS mentioned, it says NO ONE bur Many Nations to get at Israel, then the Pleasant Land or Israel and Egypt/North Africa and two verses after it says HE COMES TO HIS END. Jesus will kill him,

Daniel 11

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Maybe you should keep reading. He comes to his end BEFORE the great tribulation.

Daniel 12

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

no other nations are ever mentioned, you guys take the WHOLE WORLD, and say it must be the WHOLE WORLD not the WHOLE EARTH around the MSR, I say it means the WHOLE EARTH around the MSR, and I have backing scriptures, in Dan. 2 Alexander the Great was also said to have Conquered the WHOLE WORLD (Earth) and we all know he never conquered China, India nor the Scythians (Modern day Russia) so THAT PROVES 100% it just means the MSR. 

Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

You have to put it all together brother, you can never do this by leading with errant understandings, the WHOLE EARTH is designated by the 4 (7) Heads and 10 Horns, its always ONLY BEEN about Israel and the MSR nations, not the WHOLE EARTH. Look at every kingdom, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome AND the 10 that Arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head is COMPLETE Europe Reunited.

Yeah. I remember when it was the rage when there was 10 countries in the European Union. Now there are 27.

When God says that no man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast, He is not talking about the Mediterranean area. He is talking about the whole world.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

 

He will have his path made straight, Satan knows these scriptures, that is why he waits for the Asteroid to take the USA out of the picture, and for God to destroy 5/6 of the Russian, Iranian and Turkish Armies. 

The UN coming together brother, not a chance, it's really just mesmerizing that anyone still thinks this could happen. 

Theres that asteroid again. That does not occur until the Day of the Lord, the one year wrath of God. The US will remain a world power but will be weakened by the pretribulation rapture............and the soon coming earthquakes.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

There are Two Beasts  the Little Horn/AC becomes THE BEAST when he Conquers, the False Prophet, a Jewish High Priest is the 2nd Beast.

The beast of the sea is Nimrod, the king of Babylon who is the eighth king and is of the seven.

The beast of the earth has TWO HORNS. What is a horn?

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

Men do not come back to life brother.

Hmmm.

Is the eighth king and is of the seven.

Who was, and is not and yet is

Who had the deadly wound of the sword and does live.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

The Little Horn will be a MAN born in Greece, of Assyrian lineage as per the Bloodline so says Isaiah 10, but he's born in Greece, thus that is why we get EVERY KING in Daniel 11. And Greece is in the E.U. fulfilling Dan. 8

If you understood this looked past scripture you would know the beast is Nimrod.

Isaiah 14

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

 

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

 

 

[DeighAnn]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

I was and have been perfectly clear that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. 

For some strange reason you make conglomerative post on why untimely figs cannot be Jesus coming with the armies of heaven.

I am not saying that Jesus comes with the armies of heaven at the 6th seal. He comes for a harvest.

Long story short........The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not the coming with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

If it read, 'the harvests will be...then there would be some ground to stand on, but
the 'harvest' is 'end of the world' not a harvest divided into 2 parts, a 'barley harvest of souls at one point before Satans rule with another, a wheat harvest at the end, IS NOT GIVEN except in the traditions of men..*), and the reapers gather...the reapers are the angels.  Rev 19 has Christ and the angels/reapers coming.  


"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:30 KJV


"The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels." Matthew 13:39 KJV


A harvest and A time for it, as given IN HIS WORDS, and as a single event. Any doctrine, theory, teaching...of anything other than that makes void the words of GOD.   



Untimely figs, star fall from heaven, moon blood, sun sackcloth all take place DURING the 6th seal as does the men wishing for rocks to cover them because what comes AFTER that SHORT SEASON (that season being when the 10 toe kingdom begins, aka the tribulation of Satan, his wrath, his deception upon the world, his setting up of the  image to be worshipped),  

the one written of in the 5th seal that tells us

CHRIST CAN'T 'COME IN THE 6TH' FOR A PRE TRIB RAPTURE BECAUSE

Rev 6:11 And were given to them each robes white and it was said to them that THEY SHALL REST YET A TIME LITTLE UNTIL WOULD BE FULFILLED ALSO THE FELLOW SERVANTS OF THEM, and the brothers of them,  THOSE BEING ABOUT TO BE KILLED AS ALSO [HAD BEEN] THEY

Who was under the altar?  THOSE HAVING BEEN SLAIN BECAUSE OF THE WORD OF GOD AND BECAUSE OF THE TESTIMONY WHICH THEY HAD UPHELD.  
 

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, The Light said:

I must have read past this proof. Would you copy and paste this proof so I can examine it? I don't see how you can have proof when the Word speaks for itself.

If you can't see it you do not want to see it.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Of course it's in the Bible. 

No man can buy nor sell without the mark of the beast. That is world wide. There will be a world government after the pretribulation rapture.........new world order.

NO MAN..........in the Region they are speaking about, the 7 Headed 10 Horned Region measures what? All Kingdoms in the Mediterranean Sea Region. You problem is you can not grasp the parameters you have been given. 

There will be no Worldwide Gov. that is a misinterpretation by some and a fantasy by others like Alex Jones who is super intelligent, but who I do not think is a true Christian, you do not get angry then take the Lords name in vain, and go oh well, start talking about Christ again, but people like him I put in the fantasy bin, I put Christians in the misinterpretation bin. 

Satan has ONE PLAN, to survive, he has to prove God an inerrant God, whose word is not true, the only way to do this now, since Jesus the Son has fulfilled his mission, is to kill every Jew on earth to prove God's promises to Abraham were a lie. NOTICE: He has been trying to do that for 2000 years or more, in 70 AD, he though he could finish them off by dispersing them worldwide, in WW2 he tried to kill them all, and will try that again after the Rapture.

So, prey tell me what strategy makes the most sense, trying to rule the whole earth or ruling the one area where he can kill every Jew after they have all gathered back, as is prophesied. You are not using sound logic, nor do you understand the WHOLE EARTH or LAND is about the Mediterranean Sea Region in every instance. 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

For you to think there will not be a world government is quite puzzling. What rabbit hole did you climb in?

 

You refuse to admit Babylon nor Greece ever ruled the whole world, all because you know it defeats your point.

 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun.

The first world government was Babylon.

Proof of what I stated above. Now google and find anywhere that Babylon or Greece or even Rome ever ruled the WHOLE WORLD. You lose this debate auto brother, and you know this.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

That asteroid has you so confused. It occurs during the one year Day of the Lord, wrath of God.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

There is no such thing, the Day of the Lord lasts 1260 days PLUS 1000 years, why do you think it is called the Day of the Lord? Its the day he starts taking back the TITLE DEED to earth which Satan stole from Adam & Eve, and it takes1260 days of Wrath to clear out all the vestiges of evil, and to then have Jesus sit at the throne of the Kingdom Age for 1000 years.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Hmmm.

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Satan is currently deceiving the WHOLE WORLD but there is no ONE WORLD Gov. and never has been. It is just a misinterpretation and a fantasy. This was too easy to overcome brother, you conflated Satan's deception and WORLD RULE by a huma form of Government.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Daniel 11

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Maybe you should keep reading. He comes to his end BEFORE the great tribulation.

Daniel 12

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

My, my, my, my, my, you really do not grasp prophetic writing in the old style do you? What do you think vs. 6 means? 

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen(Jesus), which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Dan. 10-11 (really through 12:1-2) was ONE LONG VISION, then the two Angels and Jesus start talking with Daniel. So, when the Angel asks HOW LONG SHALL IT BE UNTIL THE END OF THESE WONDERS, he is talking about everything Daniel just saw in Daniel chapters 10, 11 and verses 1-2, which all goes together there were no Chapters and Verses brother. It goes like this in reality.

Dan. 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

(HERE IS HOW HE COMES TO HIS END BELOW)

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So, we get the Daniel 10 & 11 Visions of warfare, Greek rule from Alexander the Great to Antiochus Epiphanes in verses 33-34, then we get the End Time Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast in Dan. 36-45 and after we are told he dies we are told HOW HE DIES, by a Great Period of Troubles, and Michael the Arc Angels stands up to protect Israel AT THIS TIME.........What time? At the time the Beast is ruling in Daniel 11:36-45. Brother you have a really hard time comprehending these TIMING TELLS as I like to call them, you are used to modern techniques where they tell the story in a linear manner I guess. 

My, this is just astounding brother that you can not see verses 1-2 is just the finishing off of the story, stop looking at the verses and chapters as being divided where the English KJV stated they were and use you intuitive gifts from God. You are trying way to hard to cross i's and t's and not looking at these things as written by the holy spirit. Matters not where the KJV divided it, but where God Himself divided it. 

How do you make this simple mistake? You look to MENS WORKS in the KJV and not the actual writing form that was used. So, you think verses 1-2 COME AFTER he has died, when its just telling how he died and who saved Israel from this evil man. COME ON.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Yeah. I remember when it was the rage when there was 10 countries in the European Union. Now there are 27.

 

God uses 10 as COMPLETION, therefore He is ALWAYS CORRECT, He can not make you or others understand His lingo if you refuse to accept the facts, if I told you once I have told you a million times, God uses 10 Brides to represent the COMPLETE Church, and you understand that, but refuse to admit that is also what He is doing here with the 10 Horns. Also, 7 represents Divine Completion, so 7 Heads (Gov. powers) and 10 Horns (Complete Europe Reunited) under this ONE MAN'S AUTHORITY, is God lingo, you accepting that are not is just on you brother. So the NUMBER matters not, just like the USA was a COMPLETE NATION when it had 13 States, 48 States and 50 states, and if we add Canada as the 51 states all would be spoken of in Prophetic Lingo by God (if He chose to prophesy about it) as 10 (Completion).

2 hours ago, The Light said:

When God says that no man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast, He is not talking about the Mediterranean area. He is talking about the whole world.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

He most certainly is.  It is all about Beasts over Israel, in all the other Beasts who were conquered? Israel. Why was the Brits nor Ottoman Empire a Beast? There was NO Israel in the land. 

When God says Alexander the Great Conquered the WHOLE WORLD did he just mean Earth in the MSR? Or the WHOLE WORLD? Your argument is defeated brother. That is why you refuse to mention Dan. 2 and Greece ruling the WHOLE WORLD. Dodging truths will not make facts go away brother. 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Theres that asteroid again. That does not occur until the Day of the Lord, the one year wrath of God. The US will remain a world power but will be weakened by the pretribulation rapture............and the soon coming earthquakes.

On 2/21/2025 at 9:42 PM, Revelation Man said:

The DOTL starts in the Middle of the 70th week, and God's TROUBLES last for 1260 days, not one year, its not even a debatable point brother. The Asteroid is God's Wrath and it takes out the USA and allows the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The beast of the sea is Nimrod, the king of Babylon who is the eighth king and is of the seven.

The beast of the earth has TWO HORNS. What is a horn?

As I stated above, that's who they are, this Nimrod thing has to be from some cult. 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Hmmm.

Is the eighth king and is of the seven.

Who was, and is not and yet is

Who had the deadly wound of the sword and does live.

The King of the Bottomless Pit, is Apollyon a Demon Spirit who gets released at the First Woe. He is the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS in the 7 Heads or 10 Horns, meaning on THIS EARTH he is under Satan, and is not a human. His Kingdom was the Bottomless Pit. The Deadly Wound is about Rome, which is healed when the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

If you understood this looked past scripture you would know the beast is Nimrod.

 

You need to get over that, I don't know who told you that brother, but it is not of God. 

God Bless

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Maybe you are missing the FACT that there is a great multitude in heaven some of whom have come out of great tribulation in Revelation 7, after the 6th seal is opened. Which means of course that Jesus has returned to heaven. The 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God is the one-year Day of the Lord.

Are you saying that Jesus is unable to open the 7th seal if He comes at the 6th seal and returns to heaven?

Returns to heaven?  I've never read any such thing, and I have read the entire Book, Chapter by Chapter and verse by verse, here a little there a little more than once and even the NEW JERUSALEM is coming to earth.  If Christ were returning to heaven I surely would have read it.  

And why would He do that?  He sits at the right hand of God UNTIL...am I to just casually VOID that out as NOT being what is written?  It's written as such a simple verse, a simple thought, even a CHILD could easily understand.

So, I must have MISSED where it is written  He leaves BEFORE enemies made His footstool...along with HIS returning AGAIN.  Does He return to the right hand AGAIN? Does He sit UNTIL...THIS TIME AROUND?  Again, that totally makes void the first UNTIL. Can you see my problem?  I'm getting lots of 'thoughts, assumptions, conjectures aka lots of 'Hath God said's' and very LITTLE what is written as what is meant.  


I have read when He comes to earth, He is returning to sit upon HIS THRONE, the Throne of David... 'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven'...and He is returning with ALL THOSE who NEVER DIE, and those who have followed Him, who have been given robes and who have washed their robes in His blood...

It is at that time the dead rise (need to rule over those who never 'heard') remembering not all the dead will rise (those who did hear but rejected wait until death and hell and the sea give them up at the GWTJ) 

And THEN COMES THE RAPTURE OF THE SAINTS WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING.  THEY have not taken the mark of the beast, THEY HAVE endured to the end, THEY HAVE overcome the one who came to conquer.  Well maybe to0 simple to understand.  


Do you believe there will be NO SIGNS for when Satan is kicked out of heaven to the earth.  Why is that?  After all,


14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

PLURAL


I believe not only are there Signs when the war in heaven has ended and Satan and his angels have been kicked down to earth come, there will be Signs when heaven is opened and Christ returns.  


Have you ever compared the two?  Signs in heaven for Satan with the words  
Rev 6
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became
black
(3189 melas Usage: The Greek adjective "μέλας" (melas) is used to describe the color black. In the New Testament, it is often used metaphorically to convey darkness or a lack of light, which can symbolize sin, judgment, or mourning. The term can also be used literally to describe the color of objects or appearances.)

as sackcloth
(4526 sakkos Usage: The term "sakkos" refers to a coarse, rough fabric made from goat's hair, traditionally used for making sacks. In biblical contexts, it is often associated with mourning, repentance, and humility. Wearing sackcloth was a physical expression of inner sorrow or penitence.)

of hair, and the moon became as blood;
blood being used in a variety of ways, bloodshed one of them

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Here we have stars that fell unto the earth, shaken of a mighty wind MUCH DIFFERENT than the army on horses coming in flaming fire.   

 

With the moon representative of the night and all prophecy of Satan given in moons, the whole moon blood doesn't speak to the return of Christ. 

Just like All prophecy of God is given in days.  The sun and moon don't give light because COMPARED to the Brightness of the coming of Christ, they don't stand a chance.  The sun certainly wouldn't go into morning and the 1st death to all who have taken the MARK of the beast is written.   And why must they die?  Because after the return of Christ, heaven is on earth and there is NO MORE DEATH of flesh and blood bodies (Satan bound, sealed in the abyss, no where for those souls to go) and can't have a 2nd death without a first one 


The sun (light) begins mourning because SATAN has come into the world, it simply doesn't work with Christ's return...



Signs of Christs return (which is after the trib OF THOSE DAYS)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 4654. skotizó 
Usage: The verb "skotizó" primarily means to darken or to cause darkness. In a metaphorical sense, it can refer to the obscuring of understanding or the hardening of the heart. It is often used in the New Testament to describe spiritual or moral darkness, indicating a lack of understanding or enlightenment in relation to God's truth.

pheggos: Light, brightness



32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


Who SEES ALL THESE THINGS?  

What generation doesn't pass? 

WHERE IS A PRE TRIB RAPTURE FOUND IN THE WORDS OF GOD?

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Maybe you are missing the FACT that there is a great multitude in heaven some of whom have come out of great tribulation in Revelation 7, after the 6th seal is opened. Which means of course that Jesus has returned to heaven. The 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God is the one-year Day of the Lord.

When Jesus died he went and preached to those in hell.  Many of the dead, much  like us, believed and followed Him and the graves were opened and when He ascended, he led the captivity (those captives of Death now HIS CAPTIVES) to heaven.  

For those who suffered the death of the flesh and blood body from THAT POINT ON, (New Covenant) were either saved or not, went to heaven or descended into hell.  They were either made alive in Christ or they remained dead in Christ. Those who were made alive, FOLLOWED HIM in the LIKENESS of His resurrection aka in their spiritual bodies to go to the Judgment seat of Christ.  Never again being 'dead' or amongst the dead or facing the 2nd death or the GWTJ which is for THE DEAD, not the living as they have already been judged.  

If you want it in Gods Words and not mine, read on.  If you don't stop here.

----------------------------------------------------------------
When Jesus died he went and preached to those in hell.



Eph 4 

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Many of the dead, much like us, believed and followed Him so the graves were opened and when He ascended, he led the captivity (those captives of Death now HIS CAPTIVES) to heaven.

see above.

1 Pet 3
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.



Matt 27 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Isaiah 26:19 - Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

For those who suffered the death of the flesh and blood body from THAT POINT ON, (New Covenant) were either saved or not, went to heaven or descended into hell.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 


John 13  36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. 

14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

The Way, the Truth, and the Life

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


 They were either made alive in Christ or they remained dead in Christ. 

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:7 KJV

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23 KJV

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6 KJV

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matthew 8:22 KJV

"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living." Romans 14:9 KJV



 Those who were made alive, FOLLOWED HIM in the LIKENESS of His resurrection 

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" Romans 6:5 KJV



aka in their spiritual bodies to go to the Judgment seat of Christ.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV



Never again being 'dead' or amongst the dead or facing the 2nd death or the GWTJ which is for THE DEAD, not the living as they have already been judged.

see above
John 11
23  Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 




11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


 

[The Light]

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Returns to heaven?  I've never read any such thing, and I have read the entire Book, Chapter by Chapter and verse by verse, here a little there a little more than once and even the NEW JERUSALEM is coming to earth.  If Christ were returning to heaven I surely would have read it.  

How many times am I going to have to post the following verses in Matthew 24 before you are able to grasp the FACT that the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from at the 6th seal.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

And why would He do that?

Have you ever heard of the marriage supper of the Lamb? Believers are in heaven during the 7th seal wrath of God.......Day of the Lord.

Here is the great multitude in heaven during the marriage supper.......Jesus is there as He is the bridegroom.

Revelation 19

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

So, I must have MISSED where it is written  He leaves BEFORE enemies made His footstool...along with HIS returning AGAIN. 

It's pretty obvious that you have missed this. Here I'll post it again. This is Jesus coming for the harvest AT THE 6TH SEAL.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 

 

Does He return to the right hand AGAIN? Does He sit UNTIL...THIS TIME AROUND?  Again, that totally makes void the first UNTIL. Can you see my problem?

Yes I do. You don't seem to understand scripture. Do I need to post it again?

I'll just tell you. If you need scriptural support look above.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus for a harvest at the 6th seal. This is the gathering form heaven and earth before the Day of the Lord.

2 Thes 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

After He sends His angel for the gathering.........all return to heaven for the marriage supper during the one year wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

It is at that time the dead rise (need to rule over those who never 'heard') remembering not all the dead will rise (those who did hear but rejected wait until death and hell and the sea give them up at the GWTJ) 

And THEN COMES THE RAPTURE OF THE SAINTS WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING.  THEY have not taken the mark of the beast, THEY HAVE endured to the end, THEY HAVE overcome the one who came to conquer.  Well maybe to0 simple to understand.  

Sounds like you are missing quite a bit. You might start with "what is the marriage supper of the Lamb?" and find out when the marriage supper occurs. Who is there and how they got there? 

16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Signs of Christs return (which is after the trib OF THOSE DAYS)

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 

 

 

Awesome. Now all you have to figure out is that the above scriptures occur at the 6th seal. That means the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Jesus has returned. He stays in the clouds.......all eyes see him.........He sends His angels to gather elect. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. The seventh seal wrath of God.....day of the Lord occurs on earth while believers are in heaven. 

Then the armies of heaven come to the earth..........Revelation 19

[The Light]

49 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

When Jesus died he went and preached to those in hell.  Many of the dead, much  like us, believed and followed Him and the graves were opened and when He ascended, he led the captivity (those captives of Death now HIS CAPTIVES) to heaven.  

For those who suffered the death of the flesh and blood body from THAT POINT ON, (New Covenant) were either saved or not, went to heaven or descended into hell.  They were either made alive in Christ or they remained dead in Christ. Those who were made alive, FOLLOWED HIM in the LIKENESS of His resurrection aka in their spiritual bodies to go to the Judgment seat of Christ.  Never again being 'dead' or amongst the dead or facing the 2nd death or the GWTJ which is for THE DEAD, not the living as they have already been judged.  

If you want it in Gods Words and not mine, read on.  If you don't stop here.

----------------------------------------------------------------
When Jesus died he went and preached to those in hell.



Eph 4 

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Many of the dead, much like us, believed and followed Him so the graves were opened and when He ascended, he led the captivity (those captives of Death now HIS CAPTIVES) to heaven.

see above.

1 Pet 3
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.



Matt 27 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Isaiah 26:19 - Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

For those who suffered the death of the flesh and blood body from THAT POINT ON, (New Covenant) were either saved or not, went to heaven or descended into hell.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 


John 13  36Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards. 

14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

The Way, the Truth, and the Life

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


 They were either made alive in Christ or they remained dead in Christ. 

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:7 KJV

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23 KJV

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6 KJV

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matthew 8:22 KJV

"For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living." Romans 14:9 KJV



 Those who were made alive, FOLLOWED HIM in the LIKENESS of His resurrection 

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" Romans 6:5 KJV



aka in their spiritual bodies to go to the Judgment seat of Christ.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV



Never again being 'dead' or amongst the dead or facing the 2nd death or the GWTJ which is for THE DEAD, not the living as they have already been judged.

see above
John 11
23  Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 




11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


 

Out of context.

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

How many times am I going to have to post the following verses in Matthew 24 before you are able to grasp the FACT that the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from at the 6th seal.

Until you get the fact that there are 2 events in which the heavens open up with 2 DIFFERENT verses showing 'signs in heaven'.  Two different 2 times in which 2 different SIGNS are given.  THE WORDS given in each place have DIFFERENT meanings.  1ST IS the tribulation of Satan, 2nd is the tribulation that comes AFTER THOSE DAYS.  YES, THEY are VERY similar, cause they both come from the same place.  

1st one is when the war in heaven ends and Satan is kicked out.  That would be at the 6th seal 

What is the number of Satan?  666.  Why would you associate CHRIST with the NUMBER 6 when the NUMBER 6 is given us as ONE OF SATANS NUMBERS?  How many HINTS does GOD need to give to keep you on the RIGHT path? 

IF the 6th seal is as you claim 'the coming of Christ', then you have the 'little season' those under the altar are told their fellow servants will be killed like they were

being killed by CHRIST.  

HERE again is how GOD PUTS IT.  It is clear.  It is straight forward.  It SHOULD BE UNDISPUTED, UNQUESTIONED

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


And just in case you MISSED THE ORDER OF EVENTS THE FIRST TWO TIMES


9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan 


What would it take to UNDERSTAND that the Lord coming at ANY OTHER TIME BEFORE THIS TO 'GATHER' anyone for any reason

would render ALL OF THIS VOID?  



What did the first letter say?  

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

NOT WHETHER WE PRE TRIB RAPTURE OR NOT

but whether we cease to live in this body and have already followed Him or if we are one of the alive and remaining, we LIVE TOGETHER with Him.  

Why is it, NO MATTER what you may point to, IT IS NOT WRITTEN as a pre trib rapture?  I can tell you what food you should and should not eat but you can't give me a single verse that has the Lord LEAVING the right hand of the Father, the Lord with the 'church' raptured returning to heaven, the Lord having 3 Advents, the made ONE BODY being split up for the purpose of a pre trib rapture, the Lord becoming a respecter of persons, the 2nd to last being first and the first being 2nd to last, 

and why is it do you suppose, it is always put forth as a singular event?  NOT ONE PLACE where is SHOULD be OR WOULD be mentioned, is it. 

It is TOTAL and complete conjecture, a private interpretation, plus not a word of it can be understood without the wisdom of man taking us all over the place for a verse here and a verse there and those verses not having anything to do with 'the church' in part, then calling it a truth. 

Which verses do you use for pre trib rapture that don't fit with Christ gathering us AFTER the workings of Satan?  Name one, please, just to start me off.