Revenge

[Neighbor]

One is not to take revenge, but one can be  and  many times is, the instrument of God used to avenge in his name.

God will hold to account, by the same standard one uses against another, when revenge is taken  out of one's own motivation and doing.

[nebula]

3 hours ago, MomBearTo4 said:

One important thing I had to learn as an adult is that leaving someone to deal with the consequences of their actions is not seeking revenge (such as letting someone who broke the law lives with the legal penalties for doing so), neither is taking steps to keep yourself protected from evil as long as it's not done in a manner seeking retribution (the example I was given for this is that if someone crashed your car *on purpose* just for fun or whatever every time they borrow it, it's okay to stop letting them borrow it, or if someone keeps borrowing money but never pays it back, it's okay to stop "lending" - really giving - them money).

If you have been taught this from an early age and didn't have to learn it for the first time when you were middle aged, you are very blessed.

Now here's the rub.

If someone crashes your car on purpose, what is forgiveness while protecting yourself and protecting others and hopefully leaving the person to deal with the consequences of their actions by taking them to court?

Standard teaching on forgiveness doesn't give room for taking someone to court for committing a crime against you like this. But even if it is allowed, what does forgiveness look like what taking them to court?

[MomBearTo4]

4 hours ago, nebula said:

Now here's the rub.

If someone crashes your car on purpose, what is forgiveness while protecting yourself and protecting others and hopefully leaving the person to deal with the consequences of their actions by taking them to court?

Standard teaching on forgiveness doesn't give room for taking someone to court for committing a crime against you like this. But even if it is allowed, what does forgiveness look like what taking them to court?

I didn't say take them to court   i just said don't let them use the car again.  Taking them to court would have to be an individualized judgment call in the individual situation.

[farouk]

13 hours ago, Katie Rose Müller said:

To those who refuse to repent, God will bring them into His courts. But we as Christians need to pray that they come to repentance because there is always hope in God. These people have been lied to, they've been deceived and for some of them it's not really their fault.

 

@Katie Rose Müller Wise comment, indeed. It's clear that you've had a lot of thought about both the doctrinal background to the believer's situation in an unjust and unbelieving world and also with regard to your evident experience of life.

When we keep looking up (Hebrews 12.2), this does indeed alter one's whole perspective.

[nebula]

On 11/17/2024 at 6:32 PM, MomBearTo4 said:

I didn't say take them to court   i just said don't let them use the car again.  Taking them to court would have to be an individualized judgment call in the individual situation.

I'm just trying to figure out forgiveness when just saying no is not enough to protect yourself, when you have to get tough.

[nebula]

On 11/17/2024 at 6:32 PM, MomBearTo4 said:

I didn't say take them to court   i just said don't let them use the car again.  Taking them to court would have to be an individualized judgment call in the individual situation.

I'm just trying to figure out forgiveness when just saying no is not enough to protect yourself, when you have to get tough.

It's like I commented earlier:

The teaching on forgiveness has a couple of monkey wrenches.

When forgiveness enables an abuser to keep abusing, because the abusee needs "to forgive."

When people who do evil and don't repent get left off the hook in the name of "forgiveness."

[BornAgain490]

3 hours ago, nebula said:

I'm just trying to figure out forgiveness when just saying no is not enough to protect yourself, when you have to get tough.

It's like I commented earlier:

The teaching on forgiveness has a couple of monkey wrenches.

When forgiveness enables an abuser to keep abusing, because the abusee needs "to forgive."

When people who do evil and don't repent get left off the hook in the name of "forgiveness."

Has God not said: if you forgive not others for their trespasses against you, God will not forgive you.  

Only the forgiven in Christ enter the kingdom. 

[Marathoner]

The OP is correct. I'll share firsthand experience with readers because revenge and reaction come naturally to us all, and denying both is our calling in the Lord.

A gang of criminal degenerates terrorized my adopted mother for years before the Lord brought me to her. In the mountains far removed from towns and paved roads, there is no one to witness murder and the like... but nothing (and no one) escapes the sight of the Lord. If the murderer seemingly faces no consequence in this world for their evil, rest assured that they will indeed face judgment at the proper time.

These criminals boasted rap sheets filled with violent offenses. Their goal? To drive my adopted mother off of her land so they could seize it for themselves. This was something that happened in those mountains and law enforcement did nothing about it. It's just the way that it was and my best efforts accomplished nothing where the Sheriff was concerned. They ignored her, and they also ignored me.

My adopted mother armed herself to the teeth in a manner of speaking, but this gang wasn't impressed. They were armed, too... and they outnumbered us. In my case, I ignored her firearms. I listened to the Lord instead and this had the effect of infuriating her. 

What? Was I crazy? Why did I confront them with nothing in my hands? 

To her and this world I was (and still am) crazy, and I wasn't afraid of their bullets and threats. I knew that caving in to the flesh would accomplish nothing, but listening to the Spirit accomplishes everything. I did what He bid me to do even while this flesh screamed to do the opposite. 

If I kept His word and obeyed His voice, I would witness how the terror of the Lord would scatter those degenerates like leaves in the wind. All I had to do was listen to Him. My adopted mother's inability to understand wasn't important. When she says, "Are you crazy?" I can say to her, "Certainly. Remain inside and let me deal with them. Don't give it another thought."

Because I listened to His voice and did what He bid me to do, I watched how those criminals lost their nerve and fled. They didn't stop at leaving us alone... they fled those mountains for Nevada. 

Revenge is not ours. 

[nebula]

On 11/19/2024 at 10:04 AM, BornAgain490 said:

Has God not said: if you forgive not others for their trespasses against you, God will not forgive you.  

Only the forgiven in Christ enter the kingdom. 

Are you are, then, in favor of enabling abuse and training children to become lifelong doormats?

[nebula]

On 11/19/2024 at 11:33 AM, Marathoner said:

The OP is correct. I'll share firsthand experience with readers because revenge and reaction come naturally to us all, and denying both is our calling in the Lord.

A gang of criminal degenerates terrorized my adopted mother for years before the Lord brought me to her. In the mountains far removed from towns and paved roads, there is no one to witness murder and the like... but nothing (and no one) escapes the sight of the Lord. If the murderer seemingly faces no consequence in this world for their evil, rest assured that they will indeed face judgment at the proper time.

These criminals boasted rap sheets filled with violent offenses. Their goal? To drive my adopted mother off of her land so they could seize it for themselves. This was something that happened in those mountains and law enforcement did nothing about it. It's just the way that it was and my best efforts accomplished nothing where the Sheriff was concerned. They ignored her, and they also ignored me.

My adopted mother armed herself to the teeth in a manner of speaking, but this gang wasn't impressed. They were armed, too... and they outnumbered us. In my case, I ignored her firearms. I listened to the Lord instead and this had the effect of infuriating her. 

What? Was I crazy? Why did I confront them with nothing in my hands? 

To her and this world I was (and still am) crazy, and I wasn't afraid of their bullets and threats. I knew that caving in to the flesh would accomplish nothing, but listening to the Spirit accomplishes everything. I did what He bid me to do even while this flesh screamed to do the opposite. 

If I kept His word and obeyed His voice, I would witness how the terror of the Lord would scatter those degenerates like leaves in the wind. All I had to do was listen to Him. My adopted mother's inability to understand wasn't important. When she says, "Are you crazy?" I can say to her, "Certainly. Remain inside and let me deal with them. Don't give it another thought."

Because I listened to His voice and did what He bid me to do, I watched how those criminals lost their nerve and fled. They didn't stop at leaving us alone... they fled those mountains for Nevada. 

Revenge is not ours. 

What exactly did you do?