Revenge

[missmuffet]

16 minutes ago, nebula said:

Understood. Just wanted to be sure that the inspiration wasn't inspired by anything going on in the political arena.

There is a lot of corruption and evil in the political world but nothing specific in my post I was thinking of.

[Neighbor]

12 hours ago, missmuffet said:

There are times that a Christian should confront someone who has hurt them.

To appropriately point out a significant sin or harmful behavior with a goal

of bringing about repentance and reconciliation.

Perhaps so in that proverbs has indication that is so, having mentioned description of the results of such sharing. Yet there is the guidance to forgive endlessly too. And to ask God to forgive both one's self and one's enemies.

Though it is funny that Christian sects argue over even the wording of such a lesson -Trespasses or Debts.

[In the Clouds]

15 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Christians are not to seek revenge from those who have hurt them. We are to forgive

our enemies and leave those who have done us wrong in God's hands.

Being vindictive as a Christian is wrong.

Deuteronomy 32:35

Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

Romans 12:19

Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

 

So many times it's true that we are to hand enemies and trespasses up to the Lord.  But, there are also times when we are instructed to take a stand and not just be philosophical.  Look at David and Goliath.  And aren't we supposed to crush the serpent beneath our heels.  There is a matter of righteous anger vs vengeful anger, too.  Jesus turned the tables over at the temple.

Does that desire for revenge cause us to lose our witness and/or sin in our hearts and souls?  Much prayer and guidance is needed when it comes to such things.

[Neighbor]

Guess one has to gather in some of that perfect discernment too in order to know whether they re wasting time  on a fool or not. So that  one wil properly apply the following guidance:

"Do not speak in the hearing of a fool,
For he will despise the wisdom of your words."

Which also kind of limit one's own speaking to wise words. Perhaps the mute is the wisest of all?

 

 

[missmuffet]

7 hours ago, In the Clouds said:

So many times it's true that we are to hand enemies and trespasses up to the Lord.  But, there are also times when we are instructed to take a stand and not just be philosophical.  Look at David and Goliath.  And aren't we supposed to crush the serpent beneath our heels.  There is a matter of righteous anger vs vengeful anger, too.  Jesus turned the tables over at the temple.

Does that desire for revenge cause us to lose our witness and/or sin in our hearts and souls?  Much prayer and guidance is needed when it comes to such things.

The Bible tells us that we can be angry but not sin. How can you do that?

[nebula]

The teaching on forgiveness has a couple of monkey wrenches.

When forgiveness enables an abuser to keep abusing, because the abusee needs "to forgive."

When people who do evil and don't repent get left off the hook in the name of "forgiveness."

[In the Clouds]

18 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible tells us that we can be angry but not sin. How can you do that?

You're asking the wrong person here.  There are so many variables and each case has its own circumstances.  I suggest that much prayer and guidance is needed at a higher level than man.

[Katie Rose Müller]

I think one thing that should be noted is there is a difference between revenge and justice. Revenge is outside of the law; taking matters into one's own hands and could include cruel or unusual punishment. Justice seeks a third party mediator to take your case before the law and bring about a determined end which is fair.

As Christians we shouldn't take people to court for just anything.  A court case brought by a Christian is really dependent on the crime at hand; and taking, specifically, an unbeliever to court may be necessary not just for your sake but to protect the community from future harm of the criminal, e.g, if they're a serial killer. Lawsuits should never be to just act revenge; get huge amounts of money etc. But be compensation for loss, no more. If one can suffer the loss, then they should present their case before God; if the loss is because of injury or theft which threatens life then compensation by a third party is justifiable.

When I look at the current political/social environment, I have noticed a lot of people who are 'waking up' to the evils of leftist ideology. 4-8 years ago those people were 'enemies', so to speak but now they realize they've been lied too. That legacy media was fueling hatred, divisiveness, fearmongering, paranoia etc. And these people are changing now and want to see righteousness. They were exploited and used for an agenda and they realize now that they were used and abused.

To have done evil to any of those people in the name of revenge would more than likely keep them in the echo chamber; reaffirm their beliefs and be a stumbling block to critical thinking and conversion. And since all of this is really spiritual warfare, Satan being the father of lies and keeping people in bondage through lies, revenge from Christian will re-enforce the children of Satan that Christianity is bad. 

If anyone wronged us, we are to give it to God and let Him work with the culprit. We see how many political converts there are today, when people wake up and realize Satan has been lying to them, we will have greater conversion. Being the gentle lamb on the other side will help these people flee from the wolves; they will realize that there is safety and love in Christ and in His people. To those who refuse to repent, God will bring them into His courts. But we as Christians need to pray that they come to repentance because there is always hope in God. These people have been lied to, they've been deceived and for some of them it's not really their fault.

Revenge is never justifiable.

Justice in a court of law may be justifiable depending on circumstance. But it's a Christian's utmost priority to try and solve issues so that a court case can be avoided.
 

[In the Clouds]

You make some very good points.  What if revenge rears its head under another name?  These issues and questions have come before us for centuries.  Do we enter in resolution by God's Law, what's written on our hearts, or man's court proceedings?  There are many factors to consider.  Resolution is not always an easy task. Ultimately we are held accountable to our Lord and Savior.  

[MomBearTo4]

One important thing I had to learn as an adult is that leaving someone to deal with the consequences of their actions is not seeking revenge (such as letting someone who broke the law lives with the legal penalties for doing so), neither is taking steps to keep yourself protected from evil as long as it's not done in a manner seeking retribution (the example I was given for this is that if someone crashed your car *on purpose* just for fun or whatever every time they borrow it, it's okay to stop letting them borrow it, or if someone keeps borrowing money but never pays it back, it's okay to stop "lending" - really giving - them money).

If you have been taught this from an early age and didn't have to learn it for the first time when you were middle aged, you are very blessed.