The Church isn't in Revelation after Ch 4.

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

I'm good with that. However, those elders have crowns showing that Jesus has come. 

Non sequitur. As is usual with pretrib doctrine. "This means that..." with no evidence.

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Yes. That's the gist of the problem. It looks to you.............

Well, yes. Am I supposed to say, "I read it some book written by some guy."? From the evidence of the inspired prophecies of scripture, that's what I see. 

You don't like it? Oh well. 

18 hours ago, The Light said:

So again, it looks to you...........facts tell a different story.

That's not the coup you think it is. You do the same thing. Based on the facts, that's how it looks. 

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Non sequitur. As is usual with pretrib doctrine. "This means that..." with no evidence.

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Twenty four elders with crowns in heaven and kings and priests around the throne. Cherry on top.......Church not mentioned after that. And there is more, you just don't want to see.

To make what you think happens you have to change the order of the seals. Wow.

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

The abominations in Dan 9 are not the same as the one in Dan 11:31. One is Greek and one is Roman.

We agree that the AoD in Dan 11 is Antiochus in 168 BC, but the Dan 9 AoD is tied to the time of Jesus coming to Israel in 30 AD, His death in 33 1/2 AD, and the consequences of those actions in 70 AD.

Jesus knew that the Dan 11 prophecy had been fulfilled, so the only other prophecy that Jesus could be speaking about was the Dan 9 AoD prophecy.

Well you got one right at least, Dan. 11:31 is about Antiochus Epiphanes who was invited into the temple of God by Jason the high priest (real name Yeshua the False Prophet type) to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus. 

However the Dan. 9:27 AoD is about the end time Anti-Christ who will also have a False Prophet (Jewish high priest) by his side, as  matter of fact the AC can not be the 1290 AoD guy because he only comes on the scene 30 days later at the 1260, each number is that many days until Jesus shows up to END ALL THESE WONDERS, not getting the 1335 (Two-witnesses come first) the 1290 (FP) and the 1260 (AC) correct and understanding the proper order leaves one confuses over the full spectrum of the timeline.

But you are off 2000 years, so its not much hope in you seeing this error I am afraid. 

[abcdef]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

So you just ignored what I posted? Hmmm

I have not ignored anything that you have posted. I have responded to every post.

My question now is this, Why do you completely ignore Rome and it's rule over the children of Israel that started in 63 BC?

It appears that you believe that there is no mention of Rome in prophecy at all.

Did Greece kill Jesus or Rome?

[abcdef]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Well you got one right at least, Dan. 11:31 is about Antiochus Epiphanes who was invited into the temple of God by Jason the high priest (real name Yeshua the False Prophet type) to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus. 

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

However the Dan. 9:27 AoD is about the end time Anti-Christ who will also have a False Prophet (Jewish high priest) by his side, as  matter of fact the AC can not be the 1290 AoD guy because he only comes on the scene 30 days later at the 1260, each number is that many days until Jesus shows up to END ALL THESE WONDERS, not getting the 1335 (Two-witnesses come first) the 1290 (FP) and the 1260 (AC) correct and understanding the proper order leaves one confuses over the full spectrum of the timeline.

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

But you are off 2000 years, so its not much hope in you seeing this error I am afraid. 

My perspective is that the Revelation was written in the 1st century and the prophecies are from that point of view.

The Revelation is both past (5 have fallen), present (one head "is"), and future to that time of John (yet to come).

When it is seen as all future to us, it abandons the 1st century perspective in which it was written.

I understand what you are saying, it is basic pre-trib. But pre trib has one goal, that is to hide the Antichrist who is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome who is the image of Caesar.

We disagree, but that is okay. Sometimes brothers disagree.

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, Keras said:

Just because a few from the other 10 tribes did join with Judah, does not mean the rest of those 10 tribes are lost forever; 

Your idea is proved wrong by the fact of the Jews now not being 'as many as the sands of the sea'. We Christians have accepted the Salvation of Jesus, we are therefore, his Overcomers; literally His Israelite peoples. 

The Sands of the Sea is a figure of speech, not a fast truth. Its meant to relay that ONE MAN would become the Father unto a Great Nation.

Abraham was ONE MAN 4000 some odd years or so ago right? so in 2000 BC or so, and by 1000 BC Israel was a nation of many men with 12 tribes flourishing. You thus should understand those so called FEW MEN (it was really far more than a FEW MEN, lots of people hated the Northern Kingdom and lived in Jerusalem for work, as is common today) who were in Judah over 2500 years ago, had over 500 years to regenerate a tribe from MANY MEN, not a few men, and when they got sent abroad at the Diaspora, they kept on having babies over those 2000 years, so they have had 2500 plus years to repopulate those tribes in full, and they started with MANY MEN vs. Abraham who started as ONE MAN, and Israel was a powerful Nation just 1000 years later.

Why do you never think these things through Because you have an agenda brother. Proving THAT AGENDA is all important unto you it seems. I prefer the facts, even if my position is proven wrong, I see that as God teaching me His truths.

Israel is ALL Israel now. When they Repent just before the DOTL Jesus will rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years, we the Church will not even be here, ONLY THOSE who died during the Tribulation will remain on earth to serve under Jesus with Glorious bodies, Rev. 20:4 says so.

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

A more accurate conclusion is the Israel of God is to whom Jesus was sent.

Well yes if that Israel is the Israeli nation only, the Church is of course, not Israel.

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. That not how the text reads.

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it is, you ate just not picking up the rhythm of God on these verses. And the lack of push back makes it obvious tbh.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. From what Joel says the 1st trump has sounded by the midpoint. The 7th trump and the 7th bowl are not the same. 

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The First Trump sounds on day 1260 or 61, in the exact middle of the week, actually day 1261 leaves 1260 days, God looks at everything reverse from us, the 1260 is how many days the Beast serves and how many days God's Wrath lasts AND how many days away it is until Jesus shows up to "END ALL THESE WONDERS as told in Dan. 12:7" The Beast can not go forth conquering until God's Wrath hits in Rev. 8, the First Four Trumps are merely just ONE Asteroid Event. The Fires come as the Asteroid Breaks apart via Trump #1. The IMPACT is Trump #2. The Fresh Water turning Bitter is the FALLOUT from the impact, but only in  1/3 of the world, or where it hits, in the New World, just off the California Coast (see Apophis is the DOTL it will hit on Friday the 13, on April 13, 2029 IT WILL HIT). Then Trump #4 is the Sun & Moon going DARK, or Seal #6 being fulfilled !! The Smoke from all the fires on earth (I mean 1/3 of the world is burning) starts to blot out the sun, and the moon looks Blood Red because of the red hue from all the fires on earth. 

Then we are told clearly in Rev. 8:13 that the final Three Woes will ONLY COME from the Three Trumps when they are Sounded or Blown. So, Trump #5 has to be the 1st Woe, Trump #6 has to be the 2nd Woe and Trump #7 can ONLY BE the 3rd Woe !!

In Rev. 11 we are seeing a Parenthetical Chapter which is meant to show us the full 1260 days of the Two-witnesses ministry, which we know starts 75 days before the middle of the week 1260 DOTL events. How so? Because they DIE before the Beast dies to end his 1260 day reign which starts in the middle of the week, its simple math !! The Two-witnesses are the 1335 Blessing who shows up as Malachi 4:5 says BEFORE the DOTL (1260) arrives. So, we are just getting the rundown of the 2-Witnesse Ministry in Rev. 11, nothing else but it covers the exact same timeframe as Rev 8, plus Rev. 9 and 16 also, save the final 75 days BUT.......there prayer prays down the 3rd Woe which is SOON TO COME, and as we see it says the 7th Trump sounds and VICTORY is at hand, people misconstrue this, the see the 2nd Woe(6th Trump) and they understand that can be seen in REAL TIME in Rev. 9, but they do not understand that the 7th Trump sounding can also be seen in REAL TIME in Rev. 16, the 3rd Woe this emits from the 7th Trump, as Rev. 8:13 says. So, when we see the 7th Trump sound in Rev. 11 and were told the 3rd Woe comes quickly, we just have to MESH IT ALL TOGETHER, the 7th Trump emits the 3rd Woe, which is the 7 Vials. Thus as Rev. 15 says God's Wrath is FILLED UP (means made full or COMPLETED) with the 7 Vials. LETS LOOK !!

14 The second woe is past(Real time event is seen in Rev. 9); and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly(SEE BELOW, it comes when the 7th Trump is sounded, but AFTER the Two-witnesses die, meaning once they pray it down their ministry is finished).

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;(So, we are told this brings Victory, but we get the 7 Vial Events which is the 3rd Woe in  Rev. 16, and Jesus shows up on Mt. Zion in Rev. 16:19 to end it all) and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We have to understand the Parenthetical Chapters in order to ever grasp the Revelation timelines. The 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump, they are the 3rd Woe, the 6th Vial is not a River Drying up, its God's Plagues DRYING UP in order to give the Three Liars (Dragon, AC and FP) a chance to entice the cowards who took the Mark of the Beast to come out of their hiding places in caves etc. If God just kept on slaying them they would never gather to all go to Jerusalem/Armageddon. 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Trumps are not wrath. 

Of course they are, they are an ASTEROID EVENT, (Trump 1-4) and then the Three Woes. You read into the Vials bringing in the Fulness of God's wrath and do not understand that it is relaying they FINISH UP God's Wrath. 

 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

 

 

My perspective is that the Revelation was written in the 1st century and the prophecies are from that point of view.

The Revelation is both past (5 have fallen), present (one head "is"), and future to that time of John (yet to come).

When it is seen as all future to us, it abandons the 1st century perspective in which it was written.

I understand what you are saying, it is basic pre-trib. But pre trib has one goal, that is to hide the Antichrist who is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome who is the image of Caesar.

We disagree, but that is okay. Sometimes brothers disagree.

You need to forget everything you learned about Eschatology and start over brother.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Revelation Man

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You need to forget everything you learned about Eschatology and start over brother.

I could say the same thing to you, ha ha.

Pre trib has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

But this is way off the thread topic so we will have to continue on some other thread.