Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Absolutely true, and completely irrelevant to the issue; which was that the Roman covenant with Herod and the Jews thereafter was that they were exclusively  allowed, out of all the peoples of the Empire, to be solely monotheistic.

Have you forgot that that was the issue? and how it related to Daniel 9:27's "covenant with many"?

That was an issue you raised, which I don't see. 

 

[abcdef]

On 11/13/2024 at 2:15 AM, douggg said:

No, the Antichrist has to be a Jew and his religion initially Judaism.

If you are talking about Dan 11:37, it clearly says in Dan 11:2, that this is about Persia and Greece. They are the silver and brass of the Dan 2 statue. 

These battles took place long ago.

Persia, Greece, and then Antiochus. He was Greek and had no regard for the Greek Gods.

Just because it says, "... regard the God of his fathers, ..." does not mean that he was of Israel.

Daniel was written hundreds of years before these events and was given limited information by the angel. 

What the religion of the Greek man was is not given to Daniel. Only that he would not be any kind of religious person, Dan 11:37, " ..., nor regard any god, ...".

 

On 11/13/2024 at 2:15 AM, douggg said:

    Someone that the Jews will receive as their king of Israel, thought to be messiah.

John 19:15, "We have no king but Caesar".

Please show me the passage where it says the Antichrist will be thought to be the Messiah, maybe I missed it.

 

On 11/13/2024 at 2:15 AM, douggg said:

In addition to being a Jew, the person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline in order to fulfill Revelation 17:10.

Rev 17:10, Who is the head that "is" in John's time, the 6th head?

Who is the 7th head of the beast nation? 

Who is the 8th head that goes until perdition?

 

On 11/13/2024 at 2:15 AM, douggg said:

 

Can you show proof that the 70 weeks is directly linked to the Revelation?

That is, can you show me a direct reference to the 70th week in the Revelation?

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

If you are talking about Dan 11:37, it clearly says in Dan 11:2, that this is about Persia and Greece. They are the silver and brass of the Dan 2 statue. 

Daniel 11:35 is a transition verse to the time of the end.

Daniel 11:36 is about the Antichrist after he has become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

Daniel 11:37 indicates that the Antichrist will be a Jew.

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Please show me the passage where it says the Antichrist will be thought to be the Messiah, maybe I missed it.

John 4:25, "Christ" is the coming Jewish messiah.

John 12:13, the King of Israel

Mark 15:32, Christ the King of Israel

Matthew 27:42, the King of Israel

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Rev 17:10, Who is the head that "is" in John's time, the 6th head?

Who is the 7th head of the beast nation? 

Who is the 8th head that goes until perdition?

The 6th head, Nero, last of the historic Julio-Claudian series of kings.

The 7th head will be the end times little horn person.

The 8th head will be the beast-king, final stage of the little horn person

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Can you show proof that the 70 weeks is directly linked to the Revelation?

That is, can you show me a direct reference to the 70th week in the Revelation?

Daniel 9:24 seventy weeks (of years) are determined up Daniel's people the Jews.  The Jews have yet to embrace the gospel of salvation, nor Jesus as their savior.

In Revelation 12:10, in the middle part of the 70th week, the Jews will finally embrace the gospel of salvation and Jesus as their savior.

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If you asking for a verse in Revelation that includes the phrase "70th week" in those direct words, there is none.

 

Edited November 15, 2024 by douggg

[abcdef]

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

Daniel 11:35 is a transition verse to the time of the end.

Dan 11:35, Which "time of the end" is it talking about, as there are at least several. Some examples would be the time of the end of the old covenant, the end of the brass/Greek period, the end of 1st century Jerusalem, the end of the tribulation/trouble period, the end of life on the planet.

The context shows the " time of the end" is related to the Greek Antiochus.

The angel in Rev 12:7, says that the end of this period is when the people of Israel are scattered, that happened in the 1st century.

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On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

Daniel 11:36 is about the Antichrist after he has become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

There are many Antichrists, Antiochus is just one of them. Satan, the king of Babylon, and other gentile kings like Rome are all antichrists. 

Since the passage is about Persia and Greece to take it to the future breaks the context. That is, the passage does not go from BC to 2000 AD in one verse. Antiochus does not go from a ruler of ancient Greece to be  present or future Antichrist as a man, he didn't live that long. 

Dan 11:40 Shows that they fight with horses and chariots. That proves that the events are past and not future.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

Daniel 11:37 indicates that the Antichrist will be a Jew.

Dan 11:37, Doesn't show that he is a Jew, that is an assumption. If he didn't respect the Greek gods, then he would be Greek, which he was. 

There is nothing there that indicates that the god of this Greek Antichrist was the God of Jacob.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

John 4:25, "Christ" is the coming Jewish messiah.

John 12:13, the King of Israel

Mark 15:32, Christ the King of Israel

Matthew 27:42, the King of Israel

Jn 4:25, Jn 12:13, Mk 15:32, and Matt 27:42 have no reference do the Antichrist that I can see. Can you expand on how these verses are related to the idea that the Jews accept the Antichrist as their king? 

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

The 6th head, Nero, last of the historic Julio-Claudian series of kings.

If Nero was the 6th head of Rev 17, who was the head when the 69th week ended?

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

The 7th head will be the end times little horn person.

Are you saying that after Nero died, that there is a 2000 year gap between the 6th and 7th head?

That is not shown in the passage of Rev 17. Dan 7 and Dan 2, show that the 4th beast is continual and without a break or gap.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

The 8th head will be the beast-king, final stage of the little horn person

I will agree with you on this as the 8th head ends in Perdition. 

When is Perdition? Rev 20 shows that Perdition is when Satan, the dragon Rev 20:2, and death come to an end.

How does the 8th head last until perdition if the 70th week ends when Jesus returns?

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

Daniel 9:24 seventy weeks (of years) are determined up Daniel's people the Jews.

Yes

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

  The Jews have yet to embrace the gospel of salvation, nor Jesus as their savior.

Many of the children of Israel in our present time have entered the gospel kingdom of Israel, 10's of thousands. 

Right now is the last chance for the people of Israel to accept the gospel.

If you are looking for a situation where the entire nation enters the gospel kingdom, I don't believe that is going to happen.

Rom 11:26, Says that "... all Israel shall be saved: ...".

But, Rom 9:6, says that "They are not all Israel, that are of Israel:" 

Rom 9:30-32, It goes on to explain that to be Israel, it is on the basis of faith and not of the flesh, pointing out that gentiles are Israel by faith.

So when it says "all Israel shall be saved", it is talking about Israel and the gentiles who have faith and not the flesh of Israel as in the present entire nation after the flesh, as if the entire nation of Israel accepts Jesus.

Paul is not saying that every single person in the flesh nation of Israel will be saved, he is saying that all those who have faith will be saved by faith both Jew and gentile.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

In Revelation 12:10, in the middle part of the 70th week, the Jews will finally embrace the gospel of salvation and Jesus as their savior.

Rev 12:10. When did the kingdom come? On the day of Pentecost, 33 AD.

When did salvation come? On the day of Pentecost, 33 AD.

When was Satan thrown down? On the day of Pentecost, 33 AD.

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Dan 9:26, "And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ....".

When during the 70 weeks period is the Messiah cut off?

67 weeks? 67 1/2 weeks? 69 weeks? In which week is the Messiah cut off?

 

On 11/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, douggg said:

If you asking for a verse in Revelation that includes the phrase "70th week" in those direct words, there is none.

 

[douggg]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

Jn 4:25, Jn 12:13, Mk 15:32, and Matt 27:42 have no reference do the Antichrist that I can see. Can you expand on how these verses are related to the idea that the Jews accept the Antichrist as their king? 

The prefix "Anti" means against.   Can also mean instead of.

The Antichrist will be a perceived King of Israel messiah - instead of and against Jesus - the true King of Israel messiah.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

Dan 9:26, "And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ....".

When during the 70 weeks period is the Messiah cut off?

67 weeks? 67 1/2 weeks? 69 weeks? In which week is the Messiah cut off?

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, riding a donkey, hailed as the King of Israel.   4 days later, he was crucified.

So after 69 weeks Jesus arrived as the messiah, and was cutoff at the end of the 69 weeks.    All within a 4 day window.

The 70th week is still unfulfilled.    It will coincide with the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 that follow the Gog/Magog event.

 

[abcdef]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

The prefix "Anti" means against.   Can also mean instead of.

The Antichrist will be a perceived King of Israel messiah - instead of and against Jesus - the true King of Israel messiah.

Show me the scripture where it says that, "The Antichrist will be perceived as the Messiah."

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, riding a donkey, hailed as the King of Israel.   4 days later, he was crucified.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem just before His death, but that is not when He comes to Israel as the Messiah. 

Jesus came to Israel as Messiah when He began His Ministry, 30 AD. After the 69 weeks are over, at the beginning of the 70th week, 7 years to go.

 

3 hours ago, douggg said:

So after 69 weeks Jesus arrived as the messiah, and was cutoff at the end of the 69 weeks.    All within a 4 day window.

 

If Jesus arrived as Messiah after the 69 weeks were over, then He could not be killed during the 69 weeks, because the 69 weeks had ended.

Dan 9:26, Says that the Messiah is cut off after the 69 weeks.

That means the the Prince Messiah is cut off during the 70th week.

 

3 hours ago, douggg said:

The 70th week is still unfulfilled.    It will coincide with the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 that follow the Gog/Magog event.

Where is the evidence that the 70th week of Dan 9 is related to the Magog 38-39 passage? 

See that the weapons used are bows and arrows, spears, and swords. This is an event that happened long ago and is not future.

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There are many 7 year periods in the Bible. Just because they are 7 year periods, doesn't connect them as the same time period in the past or the future.

In the Bible there are the 3 1/2 times. Are they the same time period or are they different time periods? Do they run concurrently or separately? Whatever we say, we should have evidence to support that.

Dan 4, has 7 times, Dan 12, has 3 1/2 times, are they all the same time period? Why?

I don't think that the 70th week of Dan 9, comes directly after the Ezek 38-39 war, without proof. Just saying that they are related because they both mentioned 7 year time periods, doesn't make them related as the same events or pairing in the timeline.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Show me the scripture where it says that, "The Antichrist will be perceived as the Messiah."

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The Jews (Judaism) are looking for such a person, instead of Jesus who they reject as being their messiah.     You can go to any Jewish (Judaism) web site to validate that.    Such as the Judaism 101 web site.

 

[douggg]

34 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Where is the evidence that the 70th week of Dan 9 is related to the Magog 38-39 passage? 

Jesus's return, His Second Coming is in Ezekiel 39:21-29.   Jesus Himself speaking in the text.

 

Gog/Magog - then the 7 years (verse 9) - then Armageddon (verses 17-20) - then Jesus's return (verses 21-29)

Edited November 17, 2024 by douggg