Bema Judgement & Great White Throne at Same Time?

[Vine Abider]

Listening to Christian radio yesterday, a popular brother who has had a Q&A program for over 25 years (Steve Gregg) said something I'd never heard.  A caller asked about the Bema Seat (Greek) of Christ (2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10 - most often translated "judgement seat") and when it occurred.  The host stated that there is no place in scripture which indicates it is separate from the "great white throne" judgment depicted in Revelation 20, and said that it is at one time.  I'm not sure, but I think he meant it was one big event, with two main aspects - judgement of unbelievers and judgement of believers. 

According to my theology, the Bema judgement aspect is for believers to have their actions and works judged, and does not pertain to their eternal salvation.  That is, when we are reborn, the life of Christ is sent into us, making us the Father's children. "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts."  (Gal 4:6)  This life is eternal, and our sins have been paid for in Christ, but our works as His children will come under His righteous scrutiny at the Bema, and rewarded accordingly.  Then, the great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected God's provision in Christ.

So I had always thought of this as two separate events and times with the Bema occurring before the millennial reign and the great white throne occurring after the thousand year kingdom.  But I may have just realized where the host is coming from - I know from listening for a long time that he doesn't accept dispensationalistic thought.  Therefore he probably doesn't see a distinct thousand year kingdom reign occurring. 

What do you see in scripture concerning the timing of these two judgements?

Interesting article discussing this matter: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/is-the-bema-seat-reserved-for-christians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html#:~:text=In the Bible%2C The Bema,103%3A10-12).

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Listening to Christian radio yesterday, a popular brother who has had a Q&A program for over 25 years (Steve Gregg) said something I'd never heard.  A caller asked about the Bema Seat (Greek) of Christ (2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10 - most often translated "judgement seat") and when it occurred.  The host stated that there is no place in scripture which indicates it is separate from the "great white throne" judgment depicted in Revelation 20, and said that it is at one time.  I'm not sure, but I think he meant it was one big event, with two main aspects - judgement of unbelievers and judgement of believers. 

According to my theology, the Bema judgement aspect is for believers to have their actions and works judged, and does not pertain to their eternal salvation.  That is, when we are reborn, the life of Christ is sent into us, making us the Father's children. "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts."  (Gal 4:6)  This life is eternal, and our sins have been paid for in Christ, but our works as His children will come under His righteous scrutiny at the Bema, and rewarded accordingly.  Then, the great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected God's provision in Christ.

So I had always thought of this as two separate events and times with the Bema occurring before the millennial reign and the great white throne occurring after the thousand year kingdom.  But I may have just realized where the host is coming from - I know from listening for a long time that he doesn't accept dispensationalistic thought.  Therefore he probably doesn't see a distinct thousand year kingdom reign occurring. 

What do you see in scripture concerning the timing of these two judgements?

Interesting article discussing this matter: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/is-the-bema-seat-reserved-for-christians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html#:~:text=In the Bible%2C The Bema,103%3A10-12).

A "Bema" is a portable throne carried by slaves when a king, or his representative, visited far reaches of his kingdom. If a judgment was required, the slaves would set it down and the judged would stand while the king, or representative, sat and passed judgment. It fell short of the glory and size of the king's throne at the seat of power (his home city), but it carried the full weight of authority. It is used 12 times in the New Testament. In Matthew 27 Pilate sat on a Bema judging Jesus. He was Rome's representative.

All authority in the universe proceeds from God's Throne in heaven. The Greek is "Thronos". Jesus now sits in this Throne. But the day will come when Jesus will receive is OWN Throne, and it is not for heaven but for the earth. This takes place in Revelation Chapter 4 and it is seen set up in Matthew 25:31-46 - "the Thronos of His glory". The subduing of all God's enemies during the Millennium will give this throne much greater glory and so from "The Throne of His glory" it becomes "The Great White Throne". But our Lord makes a journey and for this He needs a Bema.

Our Lord Jesus will travel from Heaven after being enthroned in Revelation and end His journey on his Throne in Jerusalem judging "ALL Nations" (Matt.25:31-32). On this journey Jesus makes a stop in the clouds to meet with His Bride and the guests of the Wedding Feast. During this stop in the clouds, hidden from earth's sight, He will judge the Church. The Bema is set up in the air and Jesus sits while we stand.
1. the Bema is for the Church and is while Jesus is in the air and the clouds
2. the Thronos is for the earth and is a fixed throne of great pomp and majesty for judging "ALL Nations" at the end of the Tribulation, and "the rest of the dead" at the end of the Millennium

[missmuffet]

The Bema Seat Judgment or the Judgment Seat of Christ  will occur soon after the rapture of the Church. The Great White Throne Judgment will occur after the 1000 year millennium.

[Ausie 52]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

The Bema Seat Judgment or the Judgment Seat of Christ  will occur soon after the rapture of the Church. The Great White Throne Judgment will occur after the 1000 year millennium.

Thats my understanding too.

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Listening to Christian radio yesterday, a popular brother who has had a Q&A program for over 25 years (Steve Gregg) said something I'd never heard.  A caller asked about the Bema Seat (Greek) of Christ (2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10 - most often translated "judgement seat") and when it occurred.  The host stated that there is no place in scripture which indicates it is separate from the "great white throne" judgment depicted in Revelation 20, and said that it is at one time.  I'm not sure, but I think he meant it was one big event, with two main aspects - judgement of unbelievers and judgement of believers. 

According to my theology, the Bema judgement aspect is for believers to have their actions and works judged, and does not pertain to their eternal salvation.  That is, when we are reborn, the life of Christ is sent into us, making us the Father's children. "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts."  (Gal 4:6)  This life is eternal, and our sins have been paid for in Christ, but our works as His children will come under His righteous scrutiny at the Bema, and rewarded accordingly.  Then, the great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected God's provision in Christ.

So I had always thought of this as two separate events and times with the Bema occurring before the millennial reign and the great white throne occurring after the thousand year kingdom.  But I may have just realized where the host is coming from - I know from listening for a long time that he doesn't accept dispensationalistic thought.  Therefore he probably doesn't see a distinct thousand year kingdom reign occurring. 

What do you see in scripture concerning the timing of these two judgements?

Interesting article discussing this matter: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/is-the-bema-seat-reserved-for-christians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html#:~:text=In the Bible%2C The Bema,103%3A10-12).

I have always maintained the Great White Throne judgment occurs at the end of Christ’s millennial reign. The condemned of all ages are brought forth, and the books (plural) are opened. The condemned are judged according to their works. We know this judgment does not involve any longevity sentence, as the sentence is eternal. Therefore, the only alternative for the judgment involves official legalities (punishment fitting the crimes). In other words, I surmise there are different levels in the Lake of Fire with pain, torment, and suffering. I have had concerns about whether Christians will be in attendance watching the sentencing of their friends, family, and loved ones.

I have mentioned that the Book of Revelation is written chronologically, with some parenthetical chapters inserted. In Revelation, there are two mentions of God wiping away our tears (Rev. 7:17; 21:4). Given the chronology and context to whom this is addressed, I suspect these are two separate events: the tribulation saints and the rest of the saved. If this is the case, there is one thousand years between these two events. Again, if this exegesis is correct, could the purpose be to reflect on all the missed opportunities in this life presented to us to share the Gospel of Christ, and we did not act on that?

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I have been rethinking the Rapture, Bema Seat of Christ, and rewards, if any.

Romans 14:12 (KJV) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. As we know, the US Paul is speaking to are Christians.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Again, Paul is speaking of those in Christ only. I have always thought the Bema Seat judgment occurs shortly after the Rapture of the church, and it could very well be. The question I am unsettled on: Is giving our account to God on what we did in the flesh and receiving rewards, if any, in the same event in time, or split?

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

These are individual rewards, if any. With the chronology and context in mind, who are these to receive their rewards? This period is at the close of the millennium, entering eternity. As your thread suggests, a case can be made these two judgments could be close together. However, there are conflicts with the marriage of the Lamb and the wedding feast. Also, there is a conflict with the following if the 24 Elders represent the church:

Revelation 4:10 (KJV) The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

[seeking the lost]

The Judgement of Matthew 25 does indicate that both righteous and unrighteous will come before Him at the same time.  There will be a separation of sheep and goats at that time.

The Sheep and the Goats

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

King James Bible

 

 

[BornAgain490]

23 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Listening to Christian radio yesterday, a popular brother who has had a Q&A program for over 25 years (Steve Gregg) said something I'd never heard.  A caller asked about the Bema Seat (Greek) of Christ (2 Cor 5:10 & Rom 14:10 - most often translated "judgement seat") and when it occurred.  The host stated that there is no place in scripture which indicates it is separate from the "great white throne" judgment depicted in Revelation 20, and said that it is at one time.  I'm not sure, but I think he meant it was one big event, with two main aspects - judgement of unbelievers and judgement of believers. 

According to my theology, the Bema judgement aspect is for believers to have their actions and works judged, and does not pertain to their eternal salvation.  That is, when we are reborn, the life of Christ is sent into us, making us the Father's children. "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts."  (Gal 4:6)  This life is eternal, and our sins have been paid for in Christ, but our works as His children will come under His righteous scrutiny at the Bema, and rewarded accordingly.  Then, the great white throne judgement is for those who have rejected God's provision in Christ.

So I had always thought of this as two separate events and times with the Bema occurring before the millennial reign and the great white throne occurring after the thousand year kingdom.  But I may have just realized where the host is coming from - I know from listening for a long time that he doesn't accept dispensationalistic thought.  Therefore he probably doesn't see a distinct thousand year kingdom reign occurring. 

What do you see in scripture concerning the timing of these two judgements?

Interesting article discussing this matter: https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/is-the-bema-seat-reserved-for-christians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html#:~:text=In the Bible%2C The Bema,103%3A10-12).

Do we born again saints get judged before or after we receive our glorified bodies? 

If we're judged before we are glorified, then it occurs in that moment, the twinkling of an eye, when we put on incorruptible.

We all think in temporal terms because we don't know better. And many of us are indoctrinated into a theological system that says it's going to take God seven years to pour out His wrath to completely destroy His enemies.  Why?  The Bible nowhere says that God's wrath is longer than a day, i.e., the Day of the Lord. 

Why does God need any longer than a moment in time, the twinkling of an eye, to judge all of His children? He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six days. Why does He need any more than a moment in time to judge us when He already knows everything about us? 

The simple truth is: He doesn't need more than a moment, because He is that powetful.  

 

Edited October 2, 2024 by BornAgain490

[Vine Abider]

40 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Do we born again saints get judged before or after we receive our glorified bodies? 

If we're judged before we are glorified, then it occurs in that moment, the twinkling of an eye, when we put on incorruptible.

We all think in temporal terms because we don't know better. And many of us are indoctrinated into a theological system that says it's going to take God seven years to pour out His wrath to completely destroy His enemies.  Why?  The Bible nowhere says that God's wrath is longer than a day, i.e., the Day of the Lord. 

Why does God need any longer than a moment in time, the twinkling of an eye, to judge all of His children? He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six days. Why does He need any more than a moment in time to judge us when He already knows everything about us? 

The simple truth is: He doesn't need more than a moment, because He is that powetful.  

 

Yeah, we can get all caught up in temporal thinking, reasoning that we'll all be standing around while he judges upteen kazillion people. But as it says, a thousand years is as a day to Him (and visa versa), so He's outside of the time He created.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

The Judgement of Matthew 25 does indicate that both righteous and unrighteous will come before Him at the same time.  There will be a separation of sheep and goats at that time.

The Sheep and the Goats

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

King James Bible

 

 

Matthew 25 comes at the end of the 7 year tribulation.

[missmuffet]

45 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Do we born again saints get judged before or after we receive our glorified bodies? 

If we're judged before we are glorified, then it occurs in that moment, the twinkling of an eye, when we put on incorruptible.

We all think in temporal terms because we don't know better. And many of us are indoctrinated into a theological system that says it's going to take God seven years to pour out His wrath to completely destroy His enemies.  Why?  The Bible nowhere says that God's wrath is longer than a day, i.e., the Day of the Lord. 

Why does God need any longer than a moment in time, the twinkling of an eye, to judge all of His children? He created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six days. Why does He need any more than a moment in time to judge us when He already knows everything about us? 

The simple truth is: He doesn't need more than a moment, because He is that powetful.  

 

After we get our glorified body.There is no time on heaven, it may seem like a moment.