The Eschatology of Israel

[WordSword]

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them! 

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding. 
NC
 

[tim_from_pa]

48 minutes ago, WordSword said:

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them! 

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding. 
NC
 

It's good you see Israel's place in the scheme of things.  As I always joke, with most Protestant churches they list their doctrine like a play one goes to watch in the theater.  You have the list of characters, I.e. God, Satan, man, the places, heaven and hell, and the condition that each man is in, and finally the remedy like a knight in shining armor coming to save the day.  That's their whole  theology and eschatology.  Keep it simple folks.  But there's no growth and for sure, no understanding "what it's all about" and Israel's role.  As a matter of fact, "what we believe" rarely mentions Israel, and Jesus stands alone in a vacuum.  

I go one step further with Israel (maybe you do too), and consider the historical facts of the two house doctrine.  It's just that historians, who are mostly mundane anyway, cannot agree where the Israelites, who never returned to the land, were exiled to and who they became.  AS for myself, if we were to believe God's Word, they have to be a sizable multitude and even comprised of many nations (or in many nations). But... and here's the catch, brother Joseph was not recognized by his brothers so they became as Gentiles.  That was a foreshadowing. On the other hand, the Jews from the house of Judah retained their identity and as prophesied were of the lineage of the Kings, the Law, Torah, etc.  So that comes from the seed bed of Judah, the gospel comes from the seed bed of Israel, although obviously most are not really Christian, but took his name in which, as Isaiah prophesied God would be glorified and facilitate the spreading of the gospel.

Space does not allow me to post everything, but Adam was the Head (or supposed to be) for the Kingdom of God with men. So Israel was a type, and indeed the actual Kingdom first starting physically, and then ending in the Spirit the way Adam was supposed to have been had he taken from the other tree of life instead of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Now Jesus Christ came to remedy that. So, a Kingdom has people, land, a King, Laws and the like.  These are various covenants such as the Abrahamic Covenant, the Davidic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant where Israel (being married) agreed to follow God's Laws and Commandments.  Of course they did not and could not (and the 'theological lesson' for want of a better term is a whole rabbit hole in and of itself).  It would take a conversion, a new man to do that.  A perfect Kingdom.

So Israel as a whole was set up by God, but now it looks to me that God is calling a few now to be the church, indeed the head, and Israel will be the bride. In the meantime, there is that vast population group as Joseph had the birthright.  Judah has the lineage of the Kings (and reminds me of Revelation 1:6 where we as Christians are Kings and Priests).  This in turn will result in the coming millennium in which the church will teach the rest of the people His ways and Law, but now written in their hearts. It will be the bride's turn to be glorified as well who prepared herself based on the covenants of many people, many nations, and indeed were and are prosperous and mighty.  God will put them through one last trial (aka "Tribulation") for their correction to receive their place in His Kingdom.  Many more will be converted then (and actually, that's not the end of salvation in the millennium, either)

I can go on and on about the many facets of God's plan and how Israel fits in, and indeed is very much involved.  As Christians, if we are Gentile, we were graphed in and partake of all God's blessings which was meant to go by all mankind anyway. But the apostle Paul made it clear we are here because of Israel anyway, and as the Kingdom of God comes in, all those covenants will get their ultimate realization. The problem with the church today is they only see the Law (and subsequent grace) aspect of the covenants.  But covenants involving land, people, Kings etc are not addressing that as much as the structure.

[WordSword]

2 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

It's good you see Israel's place in the scheme of things.  As I always joke, with most Protestant churches they list their doctrine like a play one goes to watch in the theater. 

Hi, yes there are many things Protestants need to learn still, but there's no doubt that God is working with them in reclaiming the doctrine of "faith in Christ " for salvation.

[AdHoc]

On 7/24/2024 at 2:29 PM, WordSword said:

It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them! 

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding. 
NC
 

It is good to see a brother attacking this theme. It has caused much difficulty in Christianity. The reason is soon after our Lord announcing the Kingdom, another woman came in and leavened it with leaven (Matt.13). One thing about leaven is that once its in the dough, you cannot get it out. Paul, Peter ans John warn us of false teachers. They have been active since the last Apostle died - maybe even earlier when you see men who were trained by Jesus, lead the Church at Jerusalem "to be zealous for the Law" (Act.21:20). It takes a very disciplined approach to annul the effects of leaven.

An example of this effect can be seen daily on this Forum. The gospel preached by man takes up maximum two pages of the Bible. It says; "Believe in Jesus and you will go to heaven. Reject Jesus and you will go to hell." The rest of the two pages is taken up by creating a few exceptions like what will happen to the infant who dies at 1 week old. As to Israel, they think up all sorts of solutions but find no scriptures to build a coherent case. Romans 11:25 says Israel remain hard until the time of the Gentiles are full. Then verse 26 says, contrary to this, that "ALL Israel will be saved". And this dilemma is sealed by verse 32 which says that God has CONCLUDED Israel in UNBELIEF. The simplicity of the grammar leaves no room for fairy tales. Israel will only accept their Messiah when they SEE Him. And then it is way too late.

Hebrews 11:1 defines FAITH - the faith needed to be justified, born again and with which to please God. It is also a simple verse grammatically. It cannot be misunderstood. FAITH is only present when you CAN'T SEE. And Israel only believe "Him Whom they pierced" when the SEE HIM. Israel cannot be saved as we know it because God has decreed that salvation is by FAITH - and they are CONCLUDED by this very God Who stipulated faith as the only way. And from this seeming dead-end comes the trouble. But the solution is so simple as to embarrass us.

A Roman soldier, who has the blood of Christian martyrs on his hands, is campaigning in Germany. It is spring and the Rhine River is in full flood from rain and melting snow. The soldier, in full armor, falls into the torrent. He should be a goner, but at that very moment a sizeable tree trunk floats by. Our Christian killing soldier grabs the tree and is able to work his way to the river bank a mile later. He is SAVED. But I say he is not saved. Salvation is by FAITH in Jesus and he has displayed his enmity for Jesus by killing His disciples. You will answer; "Idiot! There are multiple meanings for the word 'saved'". And you would be correct. There are different meanings and different contexts for the word "saved".

Israel has a number of COVENANTS. They are made with a God Whose Word is IMMUTABLE. If God offers an Israelite a way out of a covenant that could hurt him, and he takes it, HE IS SAVED. The Law only condemns. The adulterous woman of John 8 MUST DIE. But Jesus will take her place and by faith in Jesus she ESCAPES. But suppose she refuses her Messiah. What will be the result? The answer; "Death by stoning"! WHY? Because she had a COVENANT!!! The Covenant does not disappear because grace was offered. And so ALL Israel have Covenants with the Most High. And in these Covenants PROMISES were mad by God. It suddenly becomes God's HONOR to achieve them. So ALL Israel will be saved - BUT WITH WHAT SALVATION WILL THEY BE SAVED? They will be saved like the prophets predicted.

Take Zacharias of Luke Chapter 1. Analyze his prophecy. Is there and word of heaven or hell? Go back to the Covenant with Abraham. Is heaven or hell mentioned? Or go to Exodus and see the terms of that Covenant. Go to Leviticus 26 or Deuteronomy 28 and see what an Israelite must be saved from. Can an Israelite be born again? NO! For it is by FAITH (Jn.3). But does that annul Ezekiel 37 and the restoration and redemption of all Israelites IN RESURRECTION to their land AS ONE NATION UNDER DAVID? Remember the idiot mentioned above?? That was me, years ago, giving the same meaning to different things. I also made a contract once and couldn't keep my side. Was I surprised when the other side insisted on it? NO! A Covenant is a Covenant and thank God that God keeps His Words. On that basis will Israel be saved! Born again? No. Eternal life? No. But everlasting life in their Land in peace with Messiah dwelling in their midst? YES! "Everlasting" you say. And I say YES because Luke 20 and Hebrews 9 say that a resurrected man cannot die again

[WordSword]

25 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

It is good to see a brother attacking this theme.

Hi, and appreciate your reply. God bless!