Charlie744 Posted June 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,819 Content Per Day: 1.75 Reputation: 880 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12 6 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said: I’m not upset, I am just confident in the interpretation that the Lord has revealed to me by His Spirit. Peace There certainly is nothing wrong with that but, based on your responses, I do not share your interpretations --- that is all... and I provided my thoughts (not studies)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewardofthemystery Posted June 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.39 Content Count: 1,274 Content Per Day: 3.23 Reputation: 349 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12 5 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: There certainly is nothing wrong with that but, based on your responses, I do not share your interpretations --- that is all... and I provided my thoughts (not studies)... Just remember this…. Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted June 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,650 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 2,464 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted June 12 48 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said: I am 100% convinced by the Holy Spirit that the interpretation is correct. But you are welcome to express your own views, comments, thoughts, or questions. Feel free to share.😊 Okay. There are various evidences regarding who the man child might be in Rev 12 - what are your evidences that this is Christ Himself, a singular Person? I'll give a hint as to what I see in Rev 12 - various evidences pointing to a corporate expression of Christ, rather than just Jesus Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted June 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,334 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 1,663 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12 (edited) Perspective...since everyone has a different one all we can do is go by 'what is written', not by what we 'want' what is written to MEAN, as that always turns out to be nothing more than filthy rags... 4098 piptó Strong's Concordance - piptó: to fall A Verb Use - I fall, fall under (as under condemnation), fall prostrate. 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: Followed by 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Followed by 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 906 balló Strong's Concordance - balló: to throw, cast A Verb Uses (1) I cast, throw, rush, (2) often and in the weaker sense I place, put, drop. 17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. GREEK: He said then to them, I beheld Satan as lightning out of the heaven having fallen Simple past tense - not happening right NOW. What is "the subject"? 27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Jesus and the hour of His death 28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. Edited June 12 by DeighAnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted June 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,334 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 1,663 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12 24 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: Okay. There are various evidences regarding who the man child might be in Rev 12 - what are your evidences that this is Christ Himself, a singular Person? I'll give a hint as to what I see in Rev 12 - various evidences point to a corporate expression of Christ, rather than just Jesus Himself. Could you please tell me where I can find the evidence (s) you mention here? This is how the Greek puts it forth And she brought forth A SON male who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular And if you go to the interlinear it is also singular even though the 'male' is actually 'neuter' and was caught up the child of her to God and to THE THRONE of Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewardofthemystery Posted June 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.39 Content Count: 1,274 Content Per Day: 3.23 Reputation: 349 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12 21 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: Okay. There are various evidences regarding who the man child might be in Rev 12 - what are your evidences that this is Christ Himself, a singular Person? I'll give a hint as to what I see in Rev 12 - various evidences point to a corporate expression of Christ, rather than just Jesus Himself. One evidence I posted in the OP…. Revelation chapter 12 where we see the red Dragon standing before the woman, ready to devour her child as soon as it was born. So when did this happen? This event happened when Herod had heard of the coming of the King of the Jews, and Herod inquired where this man child was to be born, and Herod sought to destroy the child as shown in Matthew 2:13-16. In this you see how Satan, “the Prince of this world”, moves men by his spirit to do his will. In this case it was Herod that was moved by the spirit of the Red Dragon to try to devour the man child as soon as he was born, as is shown in Revelation chapter 12.” Secondly we are told He is the “man child” or “male child”singular, as Jesus referred to Himself as the “Son of man” Also “the man child is caught up to God and to His throne,”as was Jesus. The “timing”of this event proves it is not referring to the Church, because the resurrection of the dead and living in Christ does not happen until “the last trump” at “the last day” per the words of Jesus. Also the “timing”is confirmed by the casting out of Satan, which Jesus said was “NOW” Also the man child was “to rule the nations with a rod of iron.” This also confirms it was Jesus. But also the things that happened after Jesus’ ascension confirms the “timing”when you see the woman fleeing into the wilderness fleeing from the persecution of the Dragon. This event not only shows the beginning of the persecution of the early saints in Christ, but also the “timing”of when Gods Israel would be scattered to the Nations(into the wilderness) after they had smote the Shepherd. So that’s a start.👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewardofthemystery Posted June 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.39 Content Count: 1,274 Content Per Day: 3.23 Reputation: 349 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/02/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 12 What does “Now” mean? 12:31 - Now G3568 is the judgment of this world: now G3568 shallthe prince of this world be cast out. Strong’s Definitions †νῦν nŷn, noon; a primary particle of present time; "now" (as adverb of date, a transition or emphasis); also as noun or adjective present or immediate:—henceforth, + hereafter, of late, soon, present, this (time) Outline of Biblical Usage ….at this time, the present, now Words have meanings.😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted June 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,650 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 2,464 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Could you please tell me where I can find the evidence (s) you mention here? This is how the Greek puts it forth And she brought forth A SON male who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular And if you go to the interlinear it is also singular even though the 'male' is actually 'neuter' and was caught up the child of her to God and to THE THRONE of Him Many pictures used in scripture are singular, which actually refers to an entity made up of numerous persons. The church is a singular title, yet many are in it. The New Jerusalem is a bride, yet is composed of many. Israel is referred to as a singular fig tree. Singular beasts are used to indicate various specific nations, and so forth. So saying "a son" does not necessarily mean one person. Remember, Revelation is a book of pictures and visions, which contains many mysterious types and representations of the reality. (and many would say this also applies to the woman in Rev 12 as not being a singular person, but rather a corporate entity of God's people - unless one believes the woman there is Mary) CC: @Stewardofthemystery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted June 12 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 219 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,650 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 2,464 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said: Revelation chapter 12 where we see the red Dragon standing before the woman, ready to devour her child as soon as it was born. So when did this happen? This event happened when Herod had heard of the coming of the King of the Jews, and Herod inquired where this man child was to be born, and Herod sought to destroy the child as shown in Matthew 2:13-16. In this you see how Satan, “the Prince of this world”, moves men by his spirit to do his will. In this case it was Herod that was moved by the spirit of the Red Dragon to try to devour the man child as soon as he was born, as is shown in Revelation chapter 12.” Secondly we are told He is the “man child” or “male child”singular, as Jesus referred to Himself as the “Son of man” Also “the man child is caught up to God and to His throne,”as was Jesus. The “timing”of this event proves it is not referring to the Church, because the resurrection of the dead and living in Christ does not happen until “the last trump” at “the last day” per the words of Jesus. Also the “timing”is confirmed by the casting out of Satan, which Jesus said was “NOW” Also the man child was “to rule the nations with a rod of iron.” This also confirms it was Jesus. But also the things that happened after Jesus’ ascension confirms the “timing”when you see the woman fleeing into the wilderness fleeing from the persecution of the Dragon. This event not only shows the beginning of the persecution of the early saints in Christ, but also the “timing”of when Gods Israel would be scattered to the Nations(into the wilderness) after they had smote the Shepherd. So that’s a start.👍 Thanks. So let me address just two things here: 1. Let's say the man child is Jesus . . . in that case, after Harod seeks to kill Him, the woman (Mary) would flee into the wilderness for 1,260 days (3.5 years). This would indicate she left her child to flee away. This did not happen --> Mary took Jesus and they fled together to Egypt. (plus their time in Egypt was much less than 1,260 days) 2. Yes, the man child will rule with a rod of iron - also promised to the church in Rev 2:26-27 "And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery— just as I have received authority from My Father." Hope that's helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted June 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,819 Content Per Day: 1.75 Reputation: 880 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12 Okay, I did a very brief look into this topic and, as expected, there were / are at least 3 different interpretations that are found in the community. It does appear that the mist accepted is the interpretation that satan is cast down at the end times. However, those two other interpretations believe just as strongly in their opinion. Consequently, this reminds me of the interpretations of Daniel… there are a few main interpretations and they differ quite a bit. I don’t have the time to study this topic but it is very clear to me that, just like the verses in Daniel, things are not what you just pick up off of the paper. Further, one of the major mistakes in interpreting Daniel is that almost ALL treat the verses in a linear fashion. And I can assure you, that is a significant mistake. My impression tells me that this is not as simple as recognizing the word “now” means “now, or should be interpreted because it follows the previous verse. It would be an interesting study and I would bet their are at least 3 important dates that work together and do not contradict the other. Perhaps the first date is indeed when both Adam and Satan were removed from the Garden or heaven, respectively. Now, both roam the earth. God immediately puts a plan together to bring us back to the Garden. Satan knows he is not welcome in this plan and does everything possible to encourage man to sin. The second date is the arrival of the Messiah. Here He establishes His Kingdom- already, but not yet. It will not be consummated until His return. Now, Satan knows his time is short. And the last date is when the Messiah returns and satan and his followers are cast into the fire. This would be my initial template if I were to study this topic and try to find every verse that speaks to it, including Isaiah… Just my thoughts… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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