THE NEW COVENANT

[jeremiah1five]

4 hours ago, Anne2 said:

The promises To Abraham included Gentiles.

De 9:5  Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 

Why is it that so many today think it is replacement theology when the church is a fulfillment of the promises to Abraham our father? But Israel applies the promises made to him as though it were to that to them? In Christ it is no different.

It's all to fulfill his promise to the fathers

Here is the Covenant terms and it DID NOT INCLUDE GENTILES:

 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee Gen. 17:6–7.

Deuteronomy 9:5 is not a covenant. But it does mention the covenant God made with a particular family: Abraham, his son, Isaac, and his grandson Jacob, and to Jacob's descendants. God made no covenant with Gentiles. NOWHERE in the Law, the Psalms, or the Prophets is there any covenant God made with Gentiles. Nowhere.

YOU SAID: "Why is it that so many today think it is replacement theology when the church is a fulfillment of the promises to Abraham our father?"

RESPONSE: Here's a little Church history for you. Jews attended the Feast of Harvests in Jerusalem. Thousands of Jews who lived in Gentile lands attended this Feast in obedience to Jehovah. ALL twelve tribes were present, and Peter is addressing these twelve tribes present at the feast. Peter says:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea [the two tribes of the Southern Kingdom], and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem,  Acts 2:14.

And

22 Ye men of Israel [the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom], hear these words; Acts 2:22.

Then Peter goes on to describe Jewish history and the prophet Joel who prophesied and the Promised God's very own Holy Spirit upon Covenant Israel, and other facts having to do with Israel. When the people repented and were baptized [by the Spirit] 3000 JEWS were saved. After the Feast ended these Jews returned to their homes in Gentile lands. First opportunity they went to their synagogues and shared their experience along with an outline of what Peter said and others became saved because of the OUTPOURING of the Holy Spirit UPON ISRAEL. In time the unsaved Judaizers couldn't reconcile this Jesus being their long-awaited Messiah and how He could have hung on a tree because under the Law anyone who hung on a tree was cursed. They stumbled at this stumbling stone. When the split occurred and the Jewish Christians began to congregate in their homes. As time went by more and more Jews were saved as a result of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

For the next four decades more and more Jews were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise. The Church that Christ Promised to build was populated with Jews. And why not? The Covenant God made was with the House of ISRAEL (Jer. 31:31-34) and the Holy Spirit was Promised to the House of Israel. Everything about the New Covenant Church was Jewish in every part/aspect of their experience. 

The True Church, the True Bride is Israel. God is betrothed to Israel. Israel is the apple of God's eye. Christ died for Israel as fulfillment of the Promise God made with the House of Israel. As you said, "the church is fulfillment of the promises to Abraham our father."

I got news for you. You are NOT Jewish and Abraham is NOT your father. God made Covenant with the House of Israel and you are NOT Israel. But as a Gentile you should be extremely grateful God has saved YOU. God is saving Gentiles WITHOUT Covenant.

At the Marriage Supper Israel is there through Covenant.

Gentiles are there by invitation.

[JohnD]

13 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I am an Orthodox Jew so I know you haven't spoken to any other Orthodox Jews because what you've said it utterly incorrect. There is a book in the Tanakh called "Ruth" that addresses this very subject... perhaps you should read it.

Halakha actually forbids even so much as reminding a convert they were once not a Jew. Converts choose a Hebrew name and are known afterwards as a son or daughter of Abraham and Sarah. There is no way any Orthodox Jew, or any Jew with even a passing knowledge of Jewish law would have said such a thing to you.

While I can be equally exposed for my non-Christian behavior, how does one coalesce being an Orthodox Jew with being a visual model? Or married to a Christian? Or with frequenting a Christian message board where people are determined to convert you to Jesus?

I see you often resort to referring to your being Orthodox.  Tov meod.

But how about these inconsistencies?

As a Christian, I... ← not in my vocabulary even though I am one, and I do not beat it to death...

My point?

I am detecting a pick and choose mentality with halakha here. Which I have noted with all who refuse to even consider what Tanakh truly says about the New Covenant and the suffering servant Messiah.

And again, how is Levitical sacrificial LAW kept with no Temple for 1900 + years?

[JohnD]

18 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

I'm sorry, remind me again where you got your Training in Jewish law?

My religious beliefs are not relevent to the topic or to what I said. The poster I was responding to made a very incorrect assertion on Jewish laws and I corrected him.

I've been here two years and you are still on and on about Isaiah 53. If the foundation and validity of Christianity rests on that verse the you guys are all in big trouble, no offense to the anyone on the forum.

I don't answer to you, I answer to Hashem. Spare me your personal questions since I'm not going to answer them.

 

Jeremiah 31 actually is what you accuse me of harping on.

And again, the 351 Tanakh messianic prophecies Jesus fulfilled in his first advent are a far cry

from your insulting assertion Isaiah 53 is all Christians have to go on.

I am not calling you into accountability to me but to the Orthodoxy you claim

over and over again to belong to.

As far as my training goes, that is not in question here.

That I know you are in violation of Orthodoxy is enough.

And again, I state that you appear to be picking and choosing which ordinances, instructions, commands (whatever) of Orthodoxy to apply to your own walk with HaShem. Unless there is some new addition to Orthodox beliefs and teachings I am unaware of.

Enlighten us all if there is.

[JohnD]

How do Orthodox Jewish girls dress?

Firstly, not all orthodox Jewish girls adhere to the Jewish laws** of tzniut (modesty). But for the majority who do, the basic guidelines are to keep your knees, collarbone, and elbow covered—and no trousers. Tight-fitting clothing isn't highly recommended, but of course, the levels of stringency vary. 

** the picking and choosing mob...

[JohnD]

What are the restrictions for Orthodox Jews?

Men do not shake hands with women. Orthodox Jews follow the laws of the Torah and only eat Kosher foods. They may eat any animal with cloven hooves and chews its cud, so cattle, sheep, goats, deer and bison are kosher. Pork and shellfish are forbidden but fish with fins and scales are allowed.

 

[JohnD]

All branches of Orthodox Judaism follow the historic Jewish attitudes to intermarriage, and therefore refuse to accept that intermarriages would have any validity or legitimacy, and strictly forbid sexual intercourse with a member of a different faith.

[JohnD]

My point in all of this is, you use Orthodoxy as a shield to hide behind when legitimate arguments about the Tanakh prophesying the New Covenant, the suffering Savior, and that human kind cannot keep the Laws of Moses (which was the point HaShem was making).

That we must listen to the one Moses prophesied about in Deuteronomy 18:15-19 or be held accountable for not doing so by all human beings' failure to fulfill / keep the Law.

[Anne2]

11 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee Gen. 17:6–7.

Thank you.

The covenant made with Abraham.....

Chr 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

It is made immutable, by God's oath to him for offering Isaac
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;

Confirmed to Jacob for a statute <02706>....( Not torah), to Israel for an everlasting covenant
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
 

And again

 Ordinance....in remembrance always.

Ex. 12:21  Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22  And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23  For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24  And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance <02706>to thee and to thy sons for ever.

It is the covenant of Mercy 

De 7:12  Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
 

[jeremiah1five]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:47 PM, Anne2 said:

Thank you.

The covenant made with Abraham.....

Chr 16:15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

It is made immutable, by God's oath to him for offering Isaac
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;

Confirmed to Jacob for a statute <02706>....( Not torah), to Israel for an everlasting covenant
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
 

The Abrahamic Covenant was already an established covenant. Attempting to sacrifice Isaac had nothing to do with the Gen. 17 establishing of covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant doesn't even come with a requirement of obedience.

On 10/24/2023 at 4:47 PM, Anne2 said:

 Ordinance....in remembrance always.

Ex. 12:21  Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22  And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23  For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24  And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance <02706>to thee and to thy sons for ever.

It is the covenant of Mercy 

De 7:12  Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
 

Yup. Mercy. I've said that. Not always, but I came to understand the Covenants of God are an expression of His mercy to His people.

[jeremiah1five]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:27 PM, Anne2 said:

The promises To Abraham included Gentiles.

There is nothing in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 17 mentioning Gentiles. 

On 10/23/2023 at 11:27 PM, Anne2 said:

 

De 9:5  Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 

Why is it that so many today think it is replacement theology when the church is a fulfillment of the promises to Abraham our father? But Israel applies the promises made to him as though it were to that to them? In Christ it is no different.

It's all to fulfill his promise to the fathers

Curious, but what Gentile father's are you referring?