Only Those Who Pass Through GT are Resurrected or Gathered.

[garee]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:24 PM, WilliamL said:

These are the post-trib, pre-wrath saints who are raptured at the Parousia of Christ. Witnessed by their being in heaven before the Throne.

As Ambassadors for Christ sent form a foreign land not of this world  yoked with Christ we are his witnesses from heaven no need to literalize the signified word "thousand" it is used to represent a unknown throughout.

Not sure why the diving of time period called dispensation God works by a labor his love in any dispensation 

The Amil was popular during the 15th citrusy reformation both sides used it neither thought it was literal. What happened and when by who ?

Was it before airplanes were made seeing some say they will fall out of the sky killing all unbelievers and the born again pilots are led on the temporally 1000 year journey to a unknown  and then will return . a person of corrupted flesh and blood  all die not receiving the incorruptible.  

Jesus warns of those who seek after sign to wonder after .none were given .We have the book of prophecy nothing can be added to it or taken way  we walk as two walking together When two or three gather under the hearing of faith  as it is written he is in the mist working in them  

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

going back to dust...never to be used again and certainly not to be raised IN glory.  

just TOUCHING a DEAD body makes you UNCLEAN....

Oh I get it... you live under the law of Moses and you think once our body dies it is never raised up even though the Bible says that it IS raised up
 

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30 KJV

In context, this means we won't be in marriages and will be single like angels are single and never marry

You gotta keep things in context in the can broman!
(be sure and turn on the exhaust fan and leave the door open)

Otherwise you might end up like those people what whacked themselves because they saw a scripture that said "Judas went and hanged himself"... and another one that said "go thou and do likewise"

Using  Matthew 22:30 for this was pretty hilarious... thanks a lot for the comedy!

You got all the boys laughing!



 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Stan Murff

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Oh I get it... you live under the law of Moses and you think once our body dies it is never raised up even though the Bible says that it IS raised up

I don't think you do   

HERE is what GOD SAYS happens AND how much  THIS BODY  has to do with the next one.
I'll show you.  About this much, maybe less .

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

In context, this means we won't be in marriages and will be single like angels are single and never marry

  One thing that we can be sure of and that is the truth will be known.   

I wonder how close the rest of your post comes to 'thou fool'?     

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

I wonder how close the rest of your post comes to 'thou fool'? 

All you got is assumptions

 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

I don't think you do

Well, opinions are like belly buttons... everyone has one and some have erroneous ones!

Thanks for sharing!


 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Through the Bible we have record of the Lord rescuing those that are obedient and faith to Him to keep His faithful out of harms way as this is how the Lord has always done things.

Ya think this time is different?

I didn't say anything about 'not rescuing' or 'not protecting'.

The point is who is gathered at the 2nd coming and who lives and reigns with Christ for 1000 years. It seems scripture is quite clear on that. 

What are your thoughts on Rev 7:13-14 and Rev 20:4-5?

 

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

And according to the Book of James (among others) faith without work is dead and not accepted by the Lord.

So, after getting born again, one can become disqualified by not having good works as Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 9:27

I don't know about that. It feels like that wouldn't be my place so say either way.

I only know what Scripture says; "By grace through faith are we saved, not through works, so one can boast."

In any case faith or works is another discussion. 

 

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


WHAT DO THE LIVING DO WITH THE BODY FROM HEAVEN THEY ARE IN WHEN THEY RETURN with Christ

Body from heaven? Return with Christ? I see none of that in scripture.

But, what do you say about Rev 20:4-5 and Rev 7:13-14?

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

to receive the 'body' from the CORRUPTION OF THE GRAVE? 

 

Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved*, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

*pretty sure talking about it going back to dust

Pretty sure you are being too literal here.

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are we RESURRECTED ONCE OR TWICE?  Do we have 2 bodies or 3?  

Resurrected once and I don't know where one would get the idea we have several bodies. There were resurrected saints that rose from the graves when Jesus was resurrected. They appeared to people. People surely recognized them in the body they were laid to rest in. God can remake the body from the dust since that's what we are made from in the 1st place. No need for some other body.

Is there some problem with God making a creation of His immortal that was mortal before? Did Enoch or Elijah jump into some new suit of spirit, or whatever, when they were taken to heaven? The apostles recognized Jesus when He appeared to them after the resurrection, same form, same face, same body. 

But none of that has anything to do with whether the saints who are resurrected in Rev 20:4 are all saints from all time or only those who faced the beast and/or were beheaded for the Testimony of Christ and the Word of God.

What say you to that?

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I KNOW the pre trib raptue doctrine has set forth this bloody killing of flesh and blood bodies all over the world, that if you don't believe it YOU are going to get LEFT BEHIND and every one who is LEFT BEHIND  IS  going to be TORTURED TO DEATH

 but since I don't believe in that doctrine, I also don't believe in their LEFT BEHIND horror story.  

I don't think THAT DOCTRINE takes into account the LOSING of ones soul to the other side, the DECEPTION as being the problem

I'm pointing out the tribulation in question here is not throughout man's existence on earth, nor is it from the ascension to now, it is from the A of D to the time of Jesus return, less than 3.5 years, and it is that great tribulation from which the saints come in Rev 7:13-14.

Not all from all time like so many believe.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 in which THE FLESH AND BLOOD BODY LOOKS ALIVE AS ALWAYS, BUT A SPIRITUAL DEATH HAS OCCURED 


"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12 KJV


We know Satan has always been the INFLUENCE of the kingdoms of the world but NEVER has he and his angels been kicked out of heaven and so he has never been here 'in person'.   

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," 2 Thessalonians 2:9 KJV

so this GREAT TRIBULATION such as the world has never seen MUST HAVE TO DO with the first WARNING Jesus gave us for the last days

DO NOT BE DECEIVED....



2347. thlipsis 
Strong's Concordance
thlipsis: tribulation
Original Word: θλῖψις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.
HELPS Word-studies
2347 thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

 

[By contrast, 4730 (stenoxōría) focuses on the external pressure exerted by circumstances.]

 

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;

insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



Revelation 18:23 - And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

"And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people." Daniel 8:24 KJV

"And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand." Daniel 8:25 KJV

Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 


32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.


Daniel 8:23-24 - And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.



Just seems to me if we get rid of the PRE TRIB flesh and blood GORY DEATH TO ALL CHRISTIANS...

AND PUT THE GREAT TRIB back In the words of God 

THE TRIB IS GREAT BECAUSE THE DECEPTION IS WORLDWIDE, and more believable than ever, AND ANY CHRISTIAN WHO KNOWS GODS TRUTH, HAS NO WHERE TO TURN.





Do you believe this is speaking to the time of the AOD?

18And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28And I will give him the morning star.

29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

What all that means isn't really what the topic is.

I want to know where you are with Rev 7:13-14 and Rev 20:4-5.

Just exactly who is resurrected, and when? 

Scripture says only those who faced the beast live and reign with Christ 1000 years.

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And a name given to one who has overcome.

Genesis 32:28

Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

Revelation 3:21

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

Revelation 2:26

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And that includes Gentile believers in Christ. They are Israel/Jacob too.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

And that includes Gentile believers in Christ. They are Israel/Jacob too.

It would be kinda hard for me to overcome the beast seeing I don't live in his kingdom.Im not saying there are no gentiles there,but if I go there preaching the gospel I don't think they will kill me or put me in prison.They will probably just deport me and not let me back in as they have done others 

Im quite sure I'm not one of these guys.

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

I do understand who it's talking about though .I understand when this persecution starts and where.I just happen to not be there and can't see how to get in that group.

 

Revelation 14:13

Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
 

I don't believe I would be shut out from a feast though.That is after the beast to the east is slain.

 

Mathew 8:11

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Edited September 4, 2023 by Shilohsfoal