Could God have forgiven and saved Judas?

[Marvin74]

53 minutes ago, FJK said:

No, I don't.

 

Is there a reason that you don't believe that verse?  Do you not believe Paul?  What about the rest of the Bible.  Do you believe the other authors?

Here's another:

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

[FJK]

8 minutes ago, Marvin74 said:

Is there a reason that you don't believe that verse?  Do you not believe Paul?  What about the rest of the Bible.  Do you believe the other authors?

Here's another:

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”

Well, he was lifted up at his crucifixion and it didn't happen as far as  I can see, and no need for the Church and his teachings (the Bible) if it did.

We are warned multiple times, bu Jesus himself, to beware of false prophets and teachings, of apostacy (the falling away from sound doctrine) in the Bible.

FWIW I think you may be in serious scriptural error this is something I see as a false doctrine.

But believe as you wish, without exception we'll all get the chance to find out.

[Marvin74]

17 minutes ago, FJK said:

FWIW I think you may be in serious scriptural error this is something I see as a false doctrine.

How am I in "scriptural error" about Jesus saving ALL people when that's exactly what the Bible says?  

[FJK]

37 minutes ago, Marvin74 said:

How am I in "scriptural error" about Jesus saving ALL people when that's exactly what the Bible says?  

Cherry picking scripture, taking it out of the context of which it was given, can be used to justify anything, mean anything you want it to mean.

This is what we are warned against.

I would suggest you spend time with the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for a fuller understanding of the role of Jesus, the Christ.

That's all I can say, maybe others will agree or disagree but that won't change the fact that all will find out someday and have no doubt left about it one way or the other.

Been interesting to talk with you, wish you the Spirit as your guide.

[Marvin74]

23 minutes ago, FJK said:

Cherry picking scripture, taking it out of the context of which it was given, can be used to justify anything, mean anything you want it to mean.

This is what we are warned against.

I would suggest you spend time with the Holy Spirit in prayer and ask for a fuller understanding of the role of Jesus, the Christ.

That's all I can say, maybe others will agree or disagree but that won't change the fact that all will find out someday and have no doubt left about it one way or the other.

Been interesting to talk with you, wish you the Spirit as your guide.

May God bless you my brother.    

[Solus Christus]

Sympathy for Judas Iscariot has become popular since Jesus Christ Superstar (The Judas parts are based on gnostic gospel of Judas, a false gospel). Like Milton’s Paradise Lost that tried to make the devil sympathetic (ugh), there is a concerted effort to make Judas seem like he had good rational for what he did. Well Scripture disagrees, for one he was possessed of the evil one, “Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve apostles.” (Luke 22:3) Now some try to make Judas a victim, that poor him, the devil took him over! He had no choice. That is wrong. Satan filled Judas because there was a place in Judas, remember he was already sinning by stealing from treasury, “But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?”  He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.” (John 12:4-6). He was already doing evil which shows his heart. 
 

Finally Jesus says Judas is lost, “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.” (John 17:12).

I find sympathy for Judas is dangerous. His story is a cautionary tale of you can be a disciple of the Lord and become a Son of Perdition, a title the Antichrist will even possess (2 Thessalonians 2:3). 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Solus Christus

[farouk]

5 minutes ago, Solus Christus said:

Sympathy for Judas Iscariot has become popular since Jesus Christ Superstar (The Judas parts are based on gnostic gospel of Judas, a false gospel). Like Milton’s Paradise Lost that tried to make the devil sympathetic (ugh), there is a concerted effort to make Judas seem like he had good rational for what he did. Well Scripture disagrees, for one he was possessed of the evil one, “Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve apostles.” (Luke 22:3) Now some try to make Judas a victim, that poor him, the devil took him over! He had no choice. That is wrong. Satan filled Judas because there was a place in Judas, remember he was already sinning by stealing from treasury, “But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was about to betray him), said, “Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?”  He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.” (John 12:4-6). He was already doing evil which shows his heart. 
 

Finally Jesus says Judas is lost, “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.” (John 17:12).

I find sympathy for Judas is dangerous. His story is a cautionary tale of you can be a disciple of the Lord and become a Son of Perdition, a title the Antichrist will even possess (2 Thessalonians 2:3). 

@Solus Christus I thought of that verse in John 17.2 about 'the son of perdition', when I saw the title of the thread, and then I saw that you had already quoted the John 17.2 ref.

[RdJ]

He could have if he had died in the whomb, cause He said it would have been better for him to not have been born.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Says here

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And we know that in John 12:6 Judas was a thief

But Paul goes onto say

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Even here Jesus said to them

John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jesus continues about his words "not all"

John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Concerning the man who betrays him Jesus says,

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

I just wanted to add into a Judas thread rather than start a new one
 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

13 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Says here

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And we know that in John 12:6 Judas was a thief

But Paul goes onto say

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Even here Jesus said to them

John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jesus continues about his words "not all"

John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Concerning the man who betrays him Jesus says,

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

I just wanted to add into a Judas thread rather than start a new one
 

Adding this to the above

1Cr 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1Cr 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Cr 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Mat 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Mat 26:22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

Mat 26:23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

1Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

Mat 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I?

He said unto him, Thou hast said.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Acts 1:7 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

John 6:20 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?