Perfect is perfect in Scripture, so be ye perfect

[Light Bearer]

Perfect work, perfect gift, perfect law, perfect man.

Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

[JasperWalls11]

Careful not to let that morph into legalism.  "Perfect" means complete, whole, mature.  It doesn't mean sinlessly perfect. 

[Light Bearer]

23 hours ago, JasperWalls11 said:

Careful not to let that morph into legalism.  "Perfect" means complete, whole, mature.  It doesn't mean sinlessly perfect. 

Silly labels. Careful not to let perfect mean anything other than what the verses in James show us in there context and how the word was used in the time that it was written. 

 

If things are complete they have met their desire end therefore they are perfect. It is not subjective. 

[Light Bearer]

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

So if it is up to our interpretation of what complete is, then the measure of the stature and fullness of Christ is not perfect it is only complete because the perfect man that we are to be is only complete, mature not perfect.

[farouk]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:59 AM, JasperWalls11 said:

Careful not to let that morph into legalism.  "Perfect" means complete, whole, mature.  It doesn't mean sinlessly perfect. 

Good point, @JasperWalls11

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

Was the Lord teaching legalism?

What about Luke 10:25-28?  

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). Jesus did not correct the lawyer and say, "Wrong lawyer! Just believe in my finished work at the cross!" Nowhere does Jesus say such a thing to the lawyer. He told the lawyer that he was correct and that by doing this (loving God and loving your neighbor), you will live.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Bible Highlighter

[Light Bearer]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:31 PM, farouk said:

Good point, @JasperWalls11

No it is not. It takes from what is said. 

[Light Bearer]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:14 PM, Bible Highlighter said:

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

Was the Lord teaching legalism?

What about Luke 10:25-28?  

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28). Jesus did not correct the lawyer and say, "Wrong lawyer! Just believe in my finished work at the cross!" Nowhere does Jesus say such a thing to the lawyer. He told the lawyer that he was correct and that by doing this (loving God and loving your neighbor), you will live.

 

 

No we are to live through God. It isn't thou shall not it is thou will not.

[Bible Highlighter]

9 hours ago, Light Bearer said:

No we are to live through God. It isn't thou shall not it is thou will not.

While I do not dispute that God lives in us (John 14:23) and that He does the good work through us (Philippians 2:13).  He also does not force us to do good against our free will.  

As for your statement that says, “It isn't thou shall not”:

This is contrary to what our Lord Jesus said.  Please see the words of Jesus that are bolded below. 

Matthew 19

16“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

In Romans 13:8-10, Paul says you fulfill these laws by loving your neighbor.   So they are still in effect.

Revelation 22:14-15 says, 
[14] “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”
 

 Also see Revelation 21:8.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Bible Highlighter

[Mr. M]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:14 AM, Light Bearer said:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This is not individual perfection, it is the perfection of fellowship in the Spirit of Christ, by way of mutual inter-dependence. This is not found in anyone's claim to being without sin, but in forgiveness, covering for one another.

"Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive

those who trespass against us."

Matthew 18:

21 Then Peter came to Him and said,

Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me,

and I forgive him? Up to seven times?

22 Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, 

up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

The Lord addresses congregations.

Revelation 3:

1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars:

I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die,

for I have not found your works perfect before God.

On 6/3/2023 at 4:14 AM, Light Bearer said:

So if it is up to our interpretation of what complete is, then the measure of the stature and fullness of Christ is not perfect it is only complete because the perfect man that we are to be is only complete, mature not perfect.

2 Co 10:

17 But he who glories, let him glory in the Lord.

18 For not he who commends himself is approved,

but whom the Lord commends.

Matthew 5:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.