Enoch, Elija, & Jesus

[Kaio-Ken]

Enoch was taken by the lord. (Could mean put to death or raptured)

Elijah for sure ascended into heaven.

Jesus of course ascended into heaven.

 

Do you think another person could please God so much to allow him to do this? These three figures mean allot to me, one being God himself, but the other two shows me a potential in me to please God. Imagine making God so happy he takes you up. 

 

Im just a few head aches away from cracking this mystery... me -> 

 

edit:

scriptures says 

Quote

john 3:13

No one has gone up to heaven except the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man.

New question where did enoch and elijah go? 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Kaio-Ken
new question added

[Selah7]

33 minutes ago, Kaio-Ken said:

Enoch was taken by the lord. (Could mean put to death or raptured)

Elijah for sure ascended into heaven.

Jesus of course ascended into heaven.

 

Do you think another person could please God so much to allow him to do this? These three figures mean allot to me, one being God himself, but the other two shows me a potential in me to please God. Imagine making God so happy he takes you up. 

 

Im just a few head aches away from cracking this mystery... me -> 

 

edit:

scriptures says 

New question where did enoch and elijah go? 

Me?  I believe these two men who were very special and pleasing to God were translated (transferred) to heaven without having to experience physical death. 

s e l a h

[FJK]

The Bible suggests, through the wording used, that both Enoch and Elijah were transcended to heaven without dying.

Since the Bible also says that it is appointed for each man to die once, some believe they will be (are) the two witnesses of Revelation where they will find their one time deaths to maintain the Bible as true.

Keep in mind that even Jesus himself met death as a man, and he was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah.

[Mr. M]

6 hours ago, Kaio-Ken said:

Do you think another person could please God so much to allow him to do this? These three figures mean allot to me, one being God himself, but the other two shows me a potential in me to please God. Imagine making God so happy he takes you up. 

Hebrews 11:

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Remain diligent in seeking to please Him, for all things are possible with God.

[Neighbor]

God uses each individual as it pleases Him to do.

So... Even a faithful person that God might hold up to even Satan as He did Job, may and does suffer great hardship and die.

To fear death, or troubles and pain in life, including even the most personally painful of them, is  the plight of many a person.  Yet there is throughout the Bible, both as instruction and as a history of individuals, the declaration that such fear is unfounded;- if one believes on Jesus as  Lord, God, and personal savior. For in Christ Jesus is hope certain.

Am I to be Enoch-like according to the Bible's instruction? Don't think so,  no. I am found acceptable to God the Father not by my  trying to be Enoch like, but instead  in spite of all my numerous flaws and my sins against God because and solely because  of the shed blood of Jesus.

I cannot add to that sacrifice a thing. My trying to do so would be  trying to remove part of that  sacrifice of the Lamb of God  and inserting my own corrupt goodness.  

So I praise my Lord, trusting in His sacrifice made willingly by Him so that I am secured by Him, and that He will not lose me, nor will he lose anyone given Him by His Father.

 

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Kaio-Ken said:

Enoch was taken by the lord. (Could mean put to death or raptured)

Elijah for sure ascended into heaven.

Jesus of course ascended into heaven.

 

Do you think another person could please God so much to allow him to do this? These three figures mean allot to me, one being God himself, but the other two shows me a potential in me to please God. Imagine making God so happy he takes you up. 

 

Im just a few head aches away from cracking this mystery... me -> 

 

edit:

scriptures says 

New question where did enoch and elijah go? 

Enoch walked with God and Elijah was jealous of the Covenant. No doubt they pleased God. But there is perhaps another reason. The word "Witness" in the Greek in Revelation 11 does not mean "witnessing" as in preaching Christ. It's primary meaning is that the person saw something and is prepared to truthfully testify of what he saw.

Now, when the Beast sets himself up first as sovereign political leader of the earth, and three and a half years later as sovereign religious leader in the Temple, God unleashes (1) His judgment on the whole earth, and (2) His judgment on Israel ("Jacob's Trouble"), He graciously, though seething with wrath, places 1 Witness IN JERUSALEM, the center of evil world politics. He also places a witness of Israel's three and a half year judgment for entertaining Gentile gods at Ahab's time.

That is, both lived in the evil times before (1) the last world-wide judgment (the flood), and (2) the last and most severe judgment on Israel- (no rain for three and a half years). Their job in Jerusalem is to be firsthand WITNESSES to testify why God is doing what He is. Since power is given the Beast over ALL men, they will ultimately be killed as martyrs. Therefore, according to Hebrews 9:27, the needed to be both living so as not to die twice.

The Bible says that both did not see death and both were taken up to heaven. Since they are still living and not on the earth today, they must be in heaven. They are probably not the only ones. When our Lord sends His angels to collect Israel from their dispersion, He also collects "elect" from heaven.

* 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Mk 13:27)

* Only Israel was scattered to the four winds and only Israel will be collected from there (Jer.49:36, Ezek.37:9)

[Dennis1209]

10 hours ago, FJK said:

The Bible suggests, through the wording used, that both Enoch and Elijah were transcended to heaven without dying.

Since the Bible also says that it is appointed for each man to die once, some believe they will be (are) the two witnesses of Revelation where they will find their one time deaths to maintain the Bible as true.

Keep in mind that even Jesus himself met death as a man, and he was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah.

There is so much to be unpacked with these questions. The short answer is that we do not know for sure; there are still mysteries we will not know this side of heaven.

I believe that Enoch, Elijah, or anyone before the ascension of Jesus could go to heaven. No one could stand before the Father until Christ’s atonement was complete and we were sanctified.

New Testament

Atonement: hilaskomai (ἱλάσκομαι) 2433 (2661) 2×, v., make atonement for, appease; have mercy on, be merciful to; propitiate

This verb can carry a general sense of “be merciful” or “forgive,” or it can have the more technical sense of the appeasement of God or a god through a sacrifice of atonement.^[1]

Enoch pleased God; therefore, God “took him.” It does not say where but Enoch was spared from the coming global judgment, and Noah was saved through the judgment. I suspect there is an application lesson here to be applied.

Elijah was much the same; he was taken up by a whirlwind into the first heaven and was transported somewhere. Scripture does not imply or say where. Just before Jesus gave up the Ghost, He told the thief being crucified next to Him, “today you will be with me in Paradise.” Jesus descended to the heart of the earth. Paradise was an actual physical place, also known as Abraham’s bosom.

As far as I know, all men went to one of the two sides of Hades at death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

TRANSLA´TED, pp. Conveyed from one place to another; removed to heaven without dying; rendered into another language.^[2]

Enoch was the sole exception; it is not said or implied Elijah was translated. I will not post it here, but I have a lengthy note on Elijah and a couple of other biblical possibilities of his fate. There is evidence he could have only been retired, and transported by a whirlwind to another location on earth, as Phillip was. Or, he could have written a letter to a future King pre-death, as with the 150-year-old prophetic letter delivered to King Cyrus.

 

---

^[1] Strauss, Mark L., and Tremper Longman III, eds. “Atone, Atonement, Atoning Sacrifice, Make Atonement.” The Baker Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words 2023: 74. Print.

^[2] Webster, Noah. Noah Webster’s first edition of An American dictionary of the English language. 2006: n. pag. Print.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

The Bible says that both did not see death and both were taken up to heaven. Since they are still living and not on the earth today, they must be in heaven. They are probably not the only ones. When our Lord sends His angels to collect Israel from their dispersion, He also collects "elect" from heaven.

Greetings AdHoc,

You replied before I posted my thoughts; I only now read them. Not to debate or be argumentative; we are mainly on the same page. But I have a question. The Greek word harpazo only means a movement, not even a direction, unless specified.

Acts 8:39 (KJV) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo)  Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. [emphasis added]

Quote: “The Bible says that both did not see death and both were taken up to heaven. Since they are still living and not on the earth today, they must be in heaven.”

For my information, where do you see Elijah as being “translated?” I interpret Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind in the first of three heavens and transported to an undisclosed location. True, Elijah was an important biblical figure and servant of God, and one would imagine his death would have been recorded.

As I mentioned above, there is a preponderance of evidence Elijah lived well after his relocation, according to the chronology of the Kings of Judah and Israel. Or he wrote that letter before his death as with the 150-year-old letter to King Cyrus? Or, the chronology of the kings is not correct but unlikely. I believe we have discussed this before.

As far as I have studied, Enoch was the only man to be translated, not tasting death. Those with saving faith at the harpazo will not taste death and be translated in the twinkling of an eye. In my opinion, Enoch was a “type” of the Rapture of the church, not seeing death and being removed from judgment. Noah and the seven seem to be a remnant of those carried through tribulation and judgment and 1/3 (a remnant) of Israel through the Tribulation.

As always, discussing the Bible and our views is a pleasure.

[Anne2]

18 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Greetings AdHoc,

You replied before I posted my thoughts; I only now read them. Not to debate or be argumentative; we are mainly on the same page. But I have a question. The Greek word harpazo only means a movement, not even a direction, unless specified.

Acts 8:39 (KJV) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo)  Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. [emphasis added]

Quote: “The Bible says that both did not see death and both were taken up to heaven. Since they are still living and not on the earth today, they must be in heaven.”

For my information, where do you see Elijah as being “translated?” I interpret Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind in the first of three heavens and transported to an undisclosed location. True, Elijah was an important biblical figure and servant of God, and one would imagine his death would have been recorded.

As I mentioned above, there is a preponderance of evidence Elijah lived well after his relocation, according to the chronology of the Kings of Judah and Israel. Or he wrote that letter before his death as with the 150-year-old letter to King Cyrus? Or, the chronology of the kings is not correct but unlikely. I believe we have discussed this before.

As far as I have studied, Enoch was the only man to be translated, not tasting death. Those with saving faith at the harpazo will not taste death and be translated in the twinkling of an eye. In my opinion, Enoch was a “type” of the Rapture of the church, not seeing death and being removed from judgment. Noah and the seven seem to be a remnant of those carried through tribulation and judgment and 1/3 (a remnant) of Israel through the Tribulation.

As always, discussing the Bible and our views is a pleasure.

Is it possible that this scripture is speaking like it did of hagar?

Ge 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
The Greek for "see" strongs 1492 as well as 1492 is also used of Enoch.

1492 οιδα oida oy’-da or εἴδω eido i’-do

a root word; v; TDNT-5:116,673; {See TDNT 538} v a root word; TDNT-5:116,706; {See TDNT 559}

AV-know 281, cannot tell + 3756 8, know how 7, wist 6, misc 19, see 314, behold 17, look 6, perceive 5, vr see 3, vr know 1; 667

1) to see
1a) to perceive with the eyes
1b) to perceive by any of the senses
1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
1d) to see
1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
1d2) to pay attention, observe
1d3) to see about something 1d31) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
1d4) to inspect, examine
1d5) to look at, behold
1e) to experience any state or condition
1f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit
2) to know
2a) to know of anything
2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive
2b1) of any fact
2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning
2b3) to know how, to be skilled in
2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (#1Th 5:12)

For Synonyms see entry 5825 

Enoch had sons and daughters, the seventh from Adam. Noah, was the tenth. Did the lord let him die a natural death so he would not "see"/be aware/take concern for,     the death of his children, and grandchildren? Where Noah, only eight were saved, his own sons? So all Enochs offspring died in the flood of God's wrath with the exception of Noah and his sons?

Just a thought

[farouk]

3 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Is it possible that this scripture is speaking like it did of hagar?

Ge 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
The Greek for "see" strongs 1492 as well as 1492 is also used of Enoch.

1492 οιδα oida oy’-da or εἴδω eido i’-do

a root word; v; TDNT-5:116,673; {See TDNT 538} v a root word; TDNT-5:116,706; {See TDNT 559}

AV-know 281, cannot tell + 3756 8, know how 7, wist 6, misc 19, see 314, behold 17, look 6, perceive 5, vr see 3, vr know 1; 667

1) to see
1a) to perceive with the eyes
1b) to perceive by any of the senses
1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
1d) to see
1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
1d2) to pay attention, observe
1d3) to see about something 1d31) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
1d4) to inspect, examine
1d5) to look at, behold
1e) to experience any state or condition
1f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit
2) to know
2a) to know of anything
2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive
2b1) of any fact
2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning
2b3) to know how, to be skilled in
2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (#1Th 5:12)

For Synonyms see entry 5825 

Enoch had sons and daughters, the seventh from Adam. Noah, was the tenth. Did the lord let him die a natural death so he would not "see"/be aware/take concern for,     the death of his children, and grandchildren? Where Noah, only eight were saved, his own sons? So all Enochs offspring died in the flood of God's wrath with the exception of Noah and his sons?

Just a thought

@Anne2 A searching passage about Hagar........