Chosen to Salvation

[Michael37]

21 minutes ago, David1701 said:

vessels of wrath are made for this purpose,

Because their unresponsive hardness is foreknown and becomes irreversible in time, otherwise the false, pagan, demonic doctrine of fatalism would attend the permanently unsaved rather than the consequential righteous judgment of God.

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Because their unresponsive hardness is foreknown and becomes irreversible in time, otherwise the false, pagan, demonic doctrine of fatalism would attend the permanently unsaved rather than the consequential righteous judgment of God.

Everyone's unresponsive hardness is foreknown...

Everyone's unresponsive hardness is irreversible, unless God works a miracle and makes the person born again.

Fatalism is impersonal, unreasoning, unfeeling inevitability.  God's sovereignty in action, working all things according to the counsel of his own will, is very different; however, I'm used to such spurious caricatures.

The righteous judgment of God is based on the fact that sinners sin willingly.  No-one has to force a son of Adam to sin, it comes naturally and it comes certainly.  The amazing thing is that God has chosen to have mercy on some of us rebellious, hard-hearted sinners, rather than give us all what we deserve.

Salvation is of the Lord.  Those who are saved, are saved because God willed it to be so, for us, from before the foundation of the world.  We are saved by grace, through faith and that not of ourselves, so that no-one may boast.  We are saved through faith (i.e. that is the means through which God saves his chosen ones); we are not saved because of our faith.

[Michael37]

25 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Everyone's unresponsive hardness is foreknown...

Everyone's unresponsive hardness is irreversible, unless God works a miracle and makes the person born again.

Fatalism is impersonal, unreasoning, unfeeling inevitability.  God's sovereignty in action, working all things according to the counsel of his own will, is very different; however, I'm used to such spurious caricatures.

The righteous judgment of God is based on the fact that sinners sin willingly.  No-one has to force a son of Adam to sin, it comes naturally and it comes certainly.  The amazing thing is that God has chosen to have mercy on some of us rebellious, hard-hearted sinners, rather than give us all what we deserve.

Salvation is of the Lord.  Those who are saved, are saved because God willed it to be so, for us, from before the foundation of the world.  We are saved by grace, through faith and that not of ourselves, so that no-one may boast.  We are saved through faith (i.e. that is the means through which God saves his chosen ones); we are not saved because of our faith.

Anyone under God's Wrath is bound for destruction, until they are saved from it. If this were not so they would not need to be saved from it. 

 

[David1701]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Anyone under God's Wrath is bound for destruction, until they are saved from it. If this were not so they would not need to be saved from it. 

 

Edit: The elect are not, at any time, bound for destruction.  Our lives certainly deserve destruction (in this we are the same as everyone else), but, the difference is that God has chosen, from the foundation of the world, to have mercy upon us.  He has predestined us for adoption as sons, to be holy and without blame before him in love.

If you deny the above, then you deny the very foundations of the gospel - that salvation is of the Lord, not of man's will or works; that salvation is all of grace, through faith (not because of faith); that Jesus laid down his life for his sheep (from Jews and Gentiles); that he laid down his life for his bride; that he prays for those whom God has given him, not the world in general; that he accomplished eternal redemption, for those for whom he died; that he propitiated the Father, on the cross, for those for whom he died; in short, that he accomplished what he came to do - to save his chosen people (from Jews and Gentiles) from their sins.

Edited January 18, 2023 by David1701
typo

[FreeGrace]

37 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Edit: The elect are not, at any time, bound for destruction.

In John 6:70,71 Jesus said that Judas was one of the 12 chosen, and yet he was also the "son of perditi0n".  He is now in Hades, awaiting the GWT judgment, where he will be cast into the LOF.

[Michael37]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:15 AM, David1701 said:

The elect are not, at any time, bound for destruction.

True. But prior to our election see Eph 2:1-3  And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,  (2)  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;  (3)  among whom we also had our way of life in times past, in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[RdJ]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:15 AM, David1701 said:

 

Everyone's unresponsive hardness is irreversible, unless God works a miracle and makes the person born again.

 

No not everyone is unresponsive hard. Everyone who gets saved needs a miracle but that is not unresponsive hard. Unresponsive hard is the wayside. Yes He takes the heart of stone out of us and gives us a heart of flesh. That's hard. But unresponsive hard is when someone can't repent anymore and sinned against the Spirit or fell back in wilfull sin and crucifies Him again.

1 Timothy 4

Now the Spirit [a]expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron

Hebrews 6

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Matthew 13

Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’

 

Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. ¹⁴ And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
¹⁵ For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I ^[b]should heal them.’

 

Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.
John 2:23‭-‬25 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.2.23-25.NKJV

 

Daniel 5

But when his heart was lifted up, and his spirit was hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him. 21 Then he was driven from the sons of men, his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild donkeys. They fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till he [l]knew that the Most High God rules in the kingdom of men, and appoints over it whomever He chooses.

22 “But you his son, Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, although you knew all this. 23 And you have [m]lifted yourself up against the Lord of heaven. They have brought the vessels of [n]His house before you, and you and your lords, your wives and your concubines, have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, bronze and iron, wood and stone, which do not see or hear or know; and the God who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways, you have not glorified. 24 Then the [o]fingers of the hand were sent from Him, and this writing was written.

25 “And this is the inscription that was written:

[p]MENE, MENE, [q]TEKEL, [r]UPHARSIN.

26 This is the interpretation of each word. MENE: God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it; 27 TEKEL: You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting

 

Isaiah 65

I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts; A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face; Who sacrifice in gardens, And burn incense on altars of brick; Who sit among the graves, And spend the night in the tombs; Who eat swine’s flesh, And the broth of abominable things is in their vessels; Who say, ‘Keep to yourself, Do not come near me, For I am holier than you!’ These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day. Thus says the Lord: “As the new wine is found in the cluster, And one says, ‘Do not destroy it, For a blessing is in it,’ So will I do for My servants’ sake, That I may not destroy them all. I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:2‭-‬5‭, ‬8‭-‬9 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.65.2-9.NKJV

 

The elect are the ones who don't say I'm holier than Thou.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by RdJ

[RdJ]

A Jewish rabbi Tovia Singer who always debates christians and debated Michael Brown said that Jesus was so unsympathetic to the pharisees. He said it can't be that they were that evil. Because if they saw that He rose from the dead they would have said: oh no! We were wrong!

That gives me hope for him.