New Jerusalem - size and shape

[Spiros]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Spiros.

The New Jerusalem is very much a real city! Don't make things so complicated that only God can understand you! When you do, only GOD can correct you, and that's NOT a situation in which to find yourself!

Merry Christmas to you, as well, and a Happy Chanukkah! He IS the "Light of the world!"

Hello Retrobyter,

 

My opinion is that New Jerusalem cannot be a physical city on Earth, either now or in the future. It is a real city but in what we might call in a parallel dimension. In reality it is more "real" than the Earth we live on. But it is difficult for us to understand aspects of its existence. I think the most relevant shape for the city is a octahedron, one pyramid on top of Earth with a slope of 45 degrees, and another identical pyramid sunk into the earth with its apex on the bottom. As you have pointed out such a large city cannot exist on the Earth. This 45 degree pyramid exists as a prototype on the Earth and was erected not by chance but to display this.  It is the center of the 2 yellow circles that I drew here(radius = 2250 and 2500 reeds):

 

https://i.postimg.cc/0yghCJV9/reed002.jpg

 

This is the pyramid here(Google Earth photo from above):

 

https://i.postimg.cc/8kRyVn4g/reed005.jpg

 

Remember revelation saying the New Jerusalem coming down from the heavens, it is what we see when we use Google Earth to zoom in on a specific position on Earth.

 

Let's note some isopsephy relations:

ΑΝΕΓΕΙΡΩ ΤΗΝ ΠΥΡΑΜΙΔΑ ΜΟΥ(anegeiro ten pyramida mou: I erect my pyramid) = ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ ΜΕΝΕΙ(Iesous Christos menei: Jesus Christ stays(maybe as in "stays at" or "lives at")) = ΟΚΤΑΚΟΣΙΑ ΟΓΔΟΗΚΟΝΤΑ ΟΚΤΩ(octakosia ogdoekonta octo: eight hundred and eighty eight) = 2478

ΙΗΣΟΥΣ(Jesus) = 888

 

This pyramid rounds out geologically to 889 not 888. This is because it is one of the two New Jerusalem prototypes.

 

Best regards

Spiros

Edited December 25, 2022 by Spiros

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Spiros said:

Hello Retrobyter,

My opinion is that New Jerusalem cannot be a physical city on Earth, either now or in the future. It is a real city but in what we might call in a parallel dimension. In reality it is more "real" than the Earth we live on. But it is difficult for us to understand aspects of its existence. I think the most relevant shape for the city is a octahedron, one pyramid on top of Earth with a slope of 45 degrees, and another identical pyramid sunk into the earth with its apex on the bottom. As you have pointed out such a large city cannot exist on the Earth. This 45 degree pyramid exists as a prototype on the Earth and was erected not by chance but to display this.  It is the center of the 2 yellow circles that I drew here(radius = 2250 and 2500 reeds):

Shalom, Spiros.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'll stick with the Scriptures. Such a large city CAN exist on the New Earth, and SHALL.

There is NO such "parallel dimension." The whole concept of multiple dimensions is based on the idea that people can make choices, and what about the other choices? What if a person makes a different choice?

But, God has DECLARED the end from the beginning! We humans think there are multiple choices that could be made, and therefore, there are multiple dimensions where other choices have been made! But, God knows every choice that HAS been made and will EVER be made! We see all the branches of possibilities; God doesn't see any branches but the ONE path that actually is made!

The only true dimensions He has given His Creation are length, width, depth, and time! People started to go nuts with this nonsense with the Heisenberg Principle! When one leaves God out of the picture, one arrives at GOOFY conclusions!

11 hours ago, Spiros said:

https://i.postimg.cc/0yghCJV9/reed002.jpg

 

This is the pyramid here(Google Earth photo from above):

 

https://i.postimg.cc/8kRyVn4g/reed005.jpg

 

Remember revelation saying the New Jerusalem coming down from the heavens, it is what we see when we use Google Earth to zoom in on a specific position on Earth.

 

Let's note some isopsephy relations:

ΑΝΕΓΕΙΡΩ ΤΗΝ ΠΥΡΑΜΙΔΑ ΜΟΥ(anegeiro ten pyramida mou: I erect my pyramid) = ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ ΜΕΝΕΙ(Iesous Christos menei: Jesus Christ stays(maybe as in "stays at" or "lives at")) = ΟΚΤΑΚΟΣΙΑ ΟΓΔΟΗΚΟΝΤΑ ΟΚΤΩ(octakosia ogdoekonta octo: eight hundred and eighty eight) = 2478

ΙΗΣΟΥΣ(Jesus) = 888

 

This pyramid rounds out geologically to 889 not 888. This is because it is one of the two New Jerusalem prototypes.

 

Best regards

Spiros

I don't know why one would spend so much time on such numerology and nonsense. Just stick to the Scriptures. Yochanan ("John") said He saw the city come down from God out of the sky. It lands upon the earth, and it will be our capital city!

Edited December 26, 2022 by Retrobyter

[Spiros]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Spiros.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'll stick with the Scriptures. Such a large city CAN exist on the New Earth, and SHALL.

There is NO such "parallel dimension." The whole concept of multiple dimensions is based on the idea that people can make choices, and what about the other choices? What if a person makes a different choice?

But, God has DECLARED the end from the beginning! We humans think there are multiple choices that could be made, and therefore, there are multiple dimensions where other choices have been made! But, God knows every choice that HAS been made and will EVER be made! We see all the branches of possibilities; God doesn't see any branches but the ONE path that actually is made!

The only true dimensions He has given His Creation are length, width, depth, and time! People started to go nuts with this nonsense with the Heisenberg Principle! When one leaves God out of the picture, one arrives at GOOFY conclusions!

I don't know why one would spend so much time on such numerology and nonsense. Just stick to the Scriptures. Yochanan ("John") said He saw the city come down from God out of the sky. It lands upon the earth, and it will be our capital city!

In science dimensions are used in different ways. There are the 9 space plus 1 time dimensions of super-strings theory. The 3 dimensions of space in reality are 9 dimensions curled up into 3. This is a theory that hasn’t been proven. Other similar theories talk of more dimensions. Then there is the statistical notion of infinite parallel dimensions being created all the time(quantum mechanics). In this notion it is like we are in one of infinite universes that might in fact interact. I was not referring to these kind of dimensions. If God can and He has created the universe, then he can pull us out of this universe and place us in another one, one that might in some fashion be similar to out own environment but in other aspects might be totally different. There, an enormous geometrical construction like the New Jerusalem “solid” might make sense. On “our” Earth it doesn’t make sense. A multi leveled city where people will live in the stratosphere and other might live deep below the crust of the Earth does not make sense. Such an octahedral city might exist in space revolving around a celestial body. All human constructions either cubic houses or octahedral pyramids were erected to serve purpose, a purpose that was in harmony with their environment. Here why would someone want to live high up or down in this city and not simply on the surface of the Earth outside it?  

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, everyone, and Happy Hanukkah, and a Happy New (Roman) Year!

I had last talked about the gently forming the clay square over the curve of a globe with @TrueFollowerOfChrist.

I should have been speaking to everyone. Rather than searching back for my post to him, I will just repeat it here for those who haven't read it, yet:

 

Here's a good way to visualize the cupped bottom of the city:

Take a square of clay, as reasonably thin and consistent as you can make it (perhaps, using a rolling pin), that is 1,380 miles on a side, according to the milage key on a globe. Use a piece of white thread long enough to go from corner to opposite corner, and criss-cross another piece of white thread from one of the other corners to its opposite corner. Mark these threads at the corners and at the center on the square with a black sharpie marker, and carefully place a pin, through these two threads, if possible, in the center. Leave the pieces of thread on the square, and carefully transfer this square of clay to the surface of the globe. It can be anywhere is easiest for you, but if you can place the pin at the location of current Jerusalem, all the better. Make sure that the two sides of the square are pointing toward the north by the same degree. (You may have to eyeball this.) Start by putting the pin where you want it (hopefully you didn't allow too much of the pin to stick through the clay), and work opposite corners down first from the center out to the corners WITHOUT DEFORMING THE CLAY too much! This is why you marked the corner locations on the thread. If you press too hard, you will stretch the clay and the marks on the string will not touch the corners any more. If that happens, start over.

When you are done lowering the four corners down against the curvature of the globe by opposite pairs, starting again at the pin in the center gently press down the center of opposite sides of the square onto the globe, again, not pressing any harder than you did with the corners. Continue to do this light pressing on opposite sides of the center until the square is molded down to the curvature of the globe. The goal is to mold the clay to the surface of the globe without deforming it out of measure. When you are done, you will see how the bottom of the city must fit with the curvature of the globe. All distances will be consistent with the 12,000 furlongs/1,380 miles distance, and all of the corners are the same.

Now, take a thin straw or a long enough toothpick or wooden matchstick, and measure it to the same measurement (1,380 miles) on the globe's milage key and break it off or cut it with a razor knife at that distance. Remove the pin and the threads. Using a carpenter's square, carefully align the straw or stick with the carpenter's square against the surface pointed out to all four of its corners, and push the straw or stick into the clay. This represents the height of the city! If you left the clay thick enough for transfer to the globe, it should be thick enough to support the straw or stick.

This gives you the three measurements, the length is 12,000 furlongs or 1,380 miles, the width is 12,000 furlongs or 1,380 miles, and the height, is also 12,000 furlongs or 1,380 miles!

Now, if ANYONE can get a "cube" to fit those measurements we just make with the clay and the straw or stick, I'd be GREATLY impressed! See, we also have the problem that "down" is in toward the center of the globe!  If the cube's top edges extend above the stick by comparison, then the city would be higher than it should be! If the corner edges of the walls extend outward any orthogonal line down through the base's edges to the center of the globe, the city would have measurements longer than the length or the width of the city!

Now, carefully remove the stick representing the city's height, and take two long pieces of white thread that will fit at least down to the corners from when the stick was in the clay, and pin the centers of these threads to the end of the stick or straw. Gently put the stick back down into the clay and stretch the thread down to the corner of the clay. Put a piece of tape down on the end of the thread to make the thread barely touch the corner. The thread should be as straight as possible. Tape down the thread to the opposite corner as well. This will give the thread some stability. Now, do the same thing with the other thread to the remaining opposite corners.

When this is done, you have the basic shape of what I believe the New Jerusalem will look like. If one has the time, dexterity, and the desire to do so, one can even take aluminum foil to form the four walls of the city, wrapping it carefully around the threads supported by the stick and tape, and cutting away the curve at the base until it matches the curvature of the globe at the base's edges. One can start with a circle of aluminum foil that has the thread length from the stick down to the corner of the clay base as the radius of the circle. (One will probably want to use a large enough compass.) Then, simply cut a line in the circle of aluminum from the circle's center to the edge of the circle.

Most don't know this, but the Great Pyramid of Giza doesn't have four sides; it actually has eight! They discovered this fact several years ago, but to make the four corners right angles, the walls had to angle in toward the center of the face slightly, and there is a LINE where the angle changes ever so gently at the center of each face of the pyramid! They noticed this by a double flash of light at the spring and fall equinoxes, as the sun was coming up.

This makes me think that the walls of the New Jerusalem will also be slightly bowed inward along the side of the city. So, one can play with the aluminum with this fact in mind and using the sides of the clay base with which we started.

Hope you enjoyed this, whether you try the experiment or not.

Let's add to this: 

He suggested finding a level enough spot on the earth for a cube this size. The problem is that if we take a plane and cut a sphere with that plane, it changes the distance to the center of the sphere, and that is "down" on the earth! If one takes a circular divot out of the earth to make a "flat spot," one is actually making a huge hole in the earth! It may LOOK "flat" from a great distance, but if you measure this surface to the center of the globe, you will see that the distance has dramatically grown shorter! See, being on the surface of the sphere, to us already SEEMS flat! To cut a "flat" spot on the earth would actually be to cut a crater that has dug 233.8 miles deep in the center! That's past the earth's crust into the mantle! No, a truly flat area that large on the surface of the earth must follow the curvature (in all directions) of the earth's surface!

I picture the city looking more like this (with a couple of walls removed):

Each of the twelve foundations are foundational LEVELS to the city. Each level follows the curvature of the earth, and each level is a foundation for another section of the city. The city is, after all, a three-dimensional city! From the outside, it will look more like this:

The walls are said to be made of jasper as is the first foundation. Some have said that this jasper is really diamond, but I don't agree. After all, I think the BLOODstone trumps diamond! Since all four walls diminish to the pinnacle, the city is entirely encased in jasper! That really is symbolic! NO ONE gets into the city without going through the blood!

Upon each segment of the city, the city of gold is built and the streets of gold wind throughout the city! Down the middle of its street, like a median, flows the river of the water of life, which originates at the throne. Of course, since Yeeshuwa` is said to be the CAPSTONE, that's where the throne is found! So, by natural gravity, the water will flow from the throne, through the city, and follow its street to each of the twelve gates. Where would the water go from there? Seems to me, that it would make sense for the water to flow out of each gate with the street opening and onto the New Earth, replenishing the earth wherever it goes.

Instead of the river flowing out of `Eden and parting into "four heads," this river will flow out of the New Jerusalem and part into TWELVE rivers, each river heading in another compass direction!

How much fun will it be to go for a long walk in the light of the New Jerusalem, visible from so much of the earth's surface?

And, yes, I believe the New Earth will have its original animals restored, if those animals actually went extinct. Some of these large reptiles are NOT extinct; they just can't grow as big as they used to be able to grow.

Remember this creature?

We still have them living in Madagascar and in the mountains of the Congo, Kenya and Tanzania in their much smaller forms! See Jackson's chameleon and Johnston's chameleon.

Just thought I'd add this last part to get someone thinking. The curse will be removed from the New Earth; so, why not? All of the dinosaurs, like all the other animals, were herbivorous before the Flood. Did you know, for instance, that a T-Rex's teeth are only seated in its jaw 1 inch even though they are six inches long? If they tried to tear meat, the attempt would tear their teeth out of their heads! Their teeth are serrated, and they would have been much more suited to raking leaves from a tree!

[JoeCanada]

On 12/22/2022 at 11:36 PM, Retrobyter said:

It's been requested that we start a topic on the New Jerusalem's size and shape.

Hello Roy,

I'm going to make this brief.

I see in Ezekiel that he's measuring the Temple and the surrounding land. 

The area in which the Temple is housed, along with the land dedicated to the Levites and administrators of the age to come, is called the "Holy Allotment" or in some versions, "Holy Oblation". Ezekiel measures this to be 25,000 Reeds square. 

He also states in Ezek 48:8 that the "Holy Allotment" was "in breadth and in length as one of the other parts", referring to the tribal divisions..... and that the tribes would "inherit the land one as well as the other"... Ezek 47:14

If we take your measurment of 10.5 ft to a reed, multiply that by 25,000 reeds, we get 262,500...... then divide that by ft per mile. 262,500 divided by 5280, we end up with approx 50 miles. This is the size of Ezekiels Holy Allotment.... 50 miles square

Now, if we go to Revelation and look at John's measurments.....

He said the City was "laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width"

John is describing a square shaped base. Then he says that his angel escort measured the City, 12,000 stadia and "its length and width and height are equal"

If we use your measurment of 1379 miles which equals 12,000 stadia (close enough),

AND..... 

Check this out bro....

By John's lifetime, the Greekway of life  had a great affect on Israeli culture. Geometry was an obsession for the Greeks. (Got your attention yet). Hero of Alexandria, who lived in the first century during John's lifetime, wrote of methods for finding approximate square and cube roots......

So.....

If we take the 1379 miles and find its cube root..... we end up with roughly 11 miles. This is the size of the "CITY" of New Jerusalem, 11 miles square .... within Ezekiels "Holy Allotment" of 5o miles square.

The "CITY" is not a city as we look at cities today, which are laid out horizontally. The CITY of New Jerusalem is a tiered city with a base of 11 miles x 11 miles x 11 miles high....and this makes so much more sense than a city of 1300 miles long and wide and 1300 miles high.

Each floor is approx. a mile high instead of 100 miles high..... which seems ridiculous.

If the City of 1379 miles square lands on earth, it will encompass an area from....

Jerusalem to Sinop Turkey in the north...

Jerusalem to Busra Iraq (Kuwait) to the east...

Jerusalem to Medina Saudi Arabia to the south... and

Jerusalem to Darnah Libya (Benghazi) to the west..... all approximately.

It will take in Greece, Turkey, Georgia, part of Iran, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, 1/2 of Saudi Arabia, most of Egypt, 1/3 of Libya, 1/2 of the Mediterranean Sea and 1/2 of the Gulf of Suez......... CRAZY!

 

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Spiros said:

In science dimensions are used in different ways. There are the 9 space plus 1 time dimensions of super-strings theory.

Shalom, Spiros.

Yes, yes, that's string theory for you. It's an attempt to better explain what they think have discovered by the theories and experiments and observations. The truth is that it's all a NUMBERS GAME! It's based on probability theory

Wikipedia gives us this:

"Probability theory is the branch of mathematics concerned with probability. Although there are several different probability interpretations, probability theory treats the concept in a rigorous mathematical manner by expressing it through a set of axioms. Typically these axioms formalise probability in terms of a probability space, which assigns a measure taking values between 0 and 1, termed the probability measure, to a set of outcomes called the sample space. Any specified subset of the sample space is called an event. Central subjects in probability theory include discrete and continuous random variables, probability distributions, and stochastic processes (which provide mathematical abstractions of non-deterministic or uncertain processes or measured quantities that may either be single occurrences or evolve over time in a random fashion). Although it is not possible to perfectly predict random events, much can be said about their behavior. Two major results in probability theory describing such behaviour are the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem."

It's all based upon the fact that we can't see into the future. It's not HUMANLY possible to predict perfectly random events! However, NOTHING takes God by surprise because He CAN see perfectly into the future!

3 hours ago, Spiros said:

The 3 dimensions of space in reality are 9 dimensions curled up into 3. This is a theory that hasn’t been proven. Other similar theories talk of more dimensions. Then there is the statistical notion of infinite parallel dimensions being created all the time(quantum mechanics). In this notion it is like we are in one of infinite universes that might in fact interact.

This is what I'm talking about! NONE of this has been proven! Furthermore, these are all theories, even worse, they are hypotheses which have no supporting evidence! All of this is as fictional as Marvel's concept of a "Multiverse!"

3 hours ago, Spiros said:

I was not referring to these kind of dimensions. If God can and He has created the universe, then he can pull us out of this universe and place us in another one, one that might in some fashion be similar to out own environment but in other aspects might be totally different.

Key word: He CAN pull us out of this universe and place us in anoher one. Of course, He CAN, but why WOULD He?

This goes back to the old question, "Can God make a rock so big that He cannot move it?" Did you know there's a good answer to that one? It's "MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!" (LOL!) Well, the truth is the answer is YES, God can make a rock so big that it ENTIRELY FILLS the known Universe, so that there is no where for the rock to go; and NO, God can create the Universe bigger and MOVE THE ROCK ANYWAY! The REAL question is: WHY would He want to do such a thing?! He's the EPITOME of EFFICIENCY! So, such an undertaking is FAR, FAR BENEATH Him!

He created this earth for the animals and human beings. He created the animals and human beings to live on this earth! He LIFTS the curse! Why shouldn't we stay HERE on the New Earth with its New Sky?!

3 hours ago, Spiros said:

There, an enormous geometrical construction like the New Jerusalem “solid” might make sense. On “our” Earth it doesn’t make sense. A multi leveled city where people will live in the stratosphere and other might live deep below the crust of the Earth does not make sense.

Well, for starters, NO ONE will live "deep below the crust of the Earth." That's the whole purpose for a FOUNDATION! It is also the reason, I believe, for the earth to undergo a global Fire, as it underwent a global Flood. I believe that the Fire coming down from God will fuse the earth together and provide a more stable plot of ground for the city's landing.

The multi-leveled city will be entirely encased inside the walls of the city. Each foundational level of the city will be 115 miles from the top of one foundation to the top of the next foundation! Of course, nothing says how thick each foundational level will be, but it must be supportable by the walls. The walls, are not square, but are triangles, and this will help in their stability. Each of these foundations (and the walls) are made of precious and semi-precious gems, grown in space to form perfect crystals. They will not only support themselves but also the city that is built upon them. 

Also, each level will have its own atmosphere, much as a plane is pressurized to fly at high altitudes! In this way, it is not wrong to call it "Heaven," which comes form the Greek word "ouranos," which means "sky." When one is traveling down the street of gold, and looks up, a hundred miles up or so, one will see the color of the next foundation and the light for that level will be filtered in that color! Between the levels, the river of the water of life will flow down, either in waterfalls or cascades, or gentle slopes counterflowing in spots to slow its flow, possibly in pools and lakes within the city.

3 hours ago, Spiros said:

Such an octahedral city might exist in space revolving around a celestial body. All human constructions either cubic houses or octahedral pyramids were erected to serve purpose, a purpose that was in harmony with their environment. Here why would someone want to live high up or down in this city and not simply on the surface of the Earth outside it?  

No, too many of the details are ignored when relegating this city to space. It just doesn't work.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hello Roy,

I'm going to make this brief.

I see in Ezekiel that he's measuring the Temple and the surrounding land. 

The area in which the Temple is housed, along with the land dedicated to the Levites and administrators of the age to come, is called the "Holy Allotment" or in some versions, "Holy Oblation". Ezekiel measures this to be 25,000 Reeds square. 

He also states in Ezek 48:8 that the "Holy Allotment" was "in breadth and in length as one of the other parts", referring to the tribal divisions..... and that the tribes would "inherit the land one as well as the other"... Ezek 47:14

If we take your measurment of 10.5 ft to a reed, multiply that by 25,000 reeds, we get 262,500...... then divide that by ft per mile. 262,500 divided by 5280, we end up with approx 50 miles. This is the size of Ezekiels Holy Allotment.... 50 miles square

Now, if we go to Revelation and look at John's measurments.....

He said the City was "laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width"

John is describing a square shaped base. Then he says that his angel escort measured the City, 12,000 stadia and "its length and width and height are equal"

If we use your measurment of 1379 miles which equals 12,000 stadia (close enough),

AND..... 

Check this out bro....

By John's lifetime, the Greekway of life  had a great affect on Israeli culture. Geometry was an obsession for the Greeks. (Got your attention yet). Hero of Alexandria, who lived in the first century during John's lifetime, wrote of methods for finding approximate square and cube roots......

So.....

If we take the 1379 miles and find its cube root..... we end up with roughly 11 miles. This is the size of the "CITY" of New Jerusalem, 11 miles square .... within Ezekiels "Holy Allotment" of 5o miles square.

Shalom, JoeCanada.

I'll just stop you there. The value of 12,000 stadia or 1,379.86868686... miles is a LINEAR value! It is NOT a cubic value! This is why units are so important! It keeps our calculations in check. You can't validly take the cube root of 1,379.868686 miles! There's no such unit as "a cube root of a mile!" One would have to start with a unit of VOLUME, such as cubic miles, to take the cube root of it!

That is NOT what we have here in Revelation 21 and 22. These measurements are LINEAR measures with LINEAR units! Furthermore, a number without a unit means NOTHING. If one doesn't know the unit, the number is MEANINGLESS! It could be 1,379.8686 molecules! or 1,379.8686 GALAXIES, as far as we would know, without a unit!

HOWEVER, the unit WAS given to us: 12,000 STADIA ("FURLONGS"), a unit of LENGTH! By unit conversion formulas, we can change that into feet, or miles, or kilometers, or any other applicable unit of length. Also, we can use the fact that we would expect a unit of length in our conversion to help us with the set-up of our conversion fractions. For instance, if we have 12,000 stad we want to convert to feet, we would take a conversion we can find, such as 1 stad = 607.14222 ft, and make it a fraction that equals 1:

One example is 1 stad / 607.14222 ft.

Another is 607.14222 ft / 1 stad

But which should we use in the conversion? Well, since we are starting in stads, then we need to "cancel" the stads. So, we would use the second fraction that has the stads in the denominator, since all values originally are considered to have their units in the numerator, unless otherwise stated.

12,000 stads x 507.14222 ft / stad = 7,285,706.666 ft

When we multiply this by our number, we will get an answer in feet, because the stads will divide out. "Feet" was what we were expecting to have as our result, so we've used the correct fraction. This process is called "unit analysis." It's very important for the calculations one must do in chemistry or physics.

We can stack these multiplier conversion factors all multiplied together - "daisy-chained" together - to come out with the unit we want in our answer.

I would like to see this in miles, so I add the fact 5,280 feet = 1 mile as a fraction equal to 1: 1 mi / 5,280 ft

Thus, we can write,

12,000 stad x 607.14222 ft / stad x 1 mi / 5,280 ft = 1,379.868686 mi

The stads "canceled out" and so did the "feet" ("ft"), and we were left with "miles" ("mi") in our answer. We can also recognize that multiplying by 1/x is the same as dividing by x.

In Revelation 21:16, "length," "width," and "height" are all LENGTHS; therefore, they all require linear measurements. So, this verse tells us that the "length" is 12,000 stadia, the "width" is 12,000 stadia, and the "height" is also 12,000 stadia!

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

The "CITY" is not a city as we look at cities today, which are laid out horizontally. The CITY of New Jerusalem is a tiered city with a base of 11 miles x 11 miles x 11 miles high....and this makes so much more sense than a city of 1300 miles long and wide and 1300 miles high.

It may seem to make more sense to you, but it would be wrong, because that's NOT what John wrote! Actually, to reject what Yeeshuwa` (Jesus) had John write, is REALLY what makes no sense!

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Each floor is approx. a mile high instead of 100 miles high..... which seems ridiculous.

If the City of 1379 miles square lands on earth, it will encompass an area from....

Jerusalem to Sinop Turkey in the north...

Jerusalem to Busra Iraq (Kuwait) to the east...

Jerusalem to Medina Saudi Arabia to the south... and

Jerusalem to Darnah Libya (Benghazi) to the west..... all approximately.

It will take in Greece, Turkey, Georgia, part of Iran, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, 1/2 of Saudi Arabia, most of Egypt, 1/3 of Libya, 1/2 of the Mediterranean Sea and 1/2 of the Gulf of Suez......... CRAZY!

You may conclude it's crazy, but that's what John wrote - that's what Jesus had John write! So, tell me again how you think Jesus is wrong.

[Marilyn C]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:44 AM, Revelation Man said:

I think just like the 144,000 in Rev. 7 its a CODE for COMPLETION. 12 = fulness and 10 = completion, so when we get 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 we get Fulness x Completion. God doesn't need to tells us the real details. 

Hi Rev Man,

I agree with you and would add -

The Priesthood - l44 cubits of the wall.

                                                        

               ` Then he measured its wall: 144 cubits

 according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.`

                                                                                 (Rev. 21: 17)

This foundations of God`s government is the 12 apostles, kings ruling. Then we read of the Priesthood with them. They are symbolised by the `144 cubits.`  This is what God promised to Israel.

                     ` And you shall be to me a kingdom of Priests

                                       and a holy nation.`

                                                                      (Ex. 19: 6) 

These Priests are revealed to us when God sealed them at the beginning of the tribulation. They came from every tribe in Israel, 12 x 12 = 144,000.

 

                   `Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees

       till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.

         And I heard the number of those who were sealed.

   144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed.`                                                                                                            (Rev. 14: 1 – 5)

 

These 144,000 Priests are also shown with the Lord on Mount Zion.

      `Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion

                                 and with Him 144,000,

          having His Father`s name written on their foreheads.`

                                                                                                               (Rev. 14: 1)

These 144,000 are described as priests. They have followed the Lamb and not false religions, or idols etc. They are pure, symbolised by being `virgins.`

           ` These are the ones who were not defiled with women,

                                   for they are virgins.

       These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.`                                                                                                               (Rev. 14: 4)

 

 

[Marilyn C]

The Government of the City - Kings.

The Gates - the Inheritance - access to the city.                                                                    

                                        `Also she had a great and high wall with 12 gates,

                                  and 12 angels at the gates, and names written on them,

                                          which are the names of the 12 tribes of Israel:

                                        three gates on the east, three gates on the north,

                                    three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

                                                                                                      (Rev. 21: 12 & 13)

Gates are the entrance to a city and give access to what is within. These represent where the wise men and councillors of the city would sit to rule and give judgment of cases. The 12 tribes are represented there with their covering angels. This is the promised inheritance to Israel - a heavenly city.

                      `they all died in faith, not having received the promises....

                       Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God,

                                          for He has prepared a city for them.`

                                                                               (Heb. 11: 9, 10 & 16)

 

The Walls - the Kings. Protection and Security.

Walls are for protection and here they represent Christ`s government ruling in the city.

                            `Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations,

                            and on them were the 12 apostles of the Lamb.`

                                                                                         (Rev. 21: 14)

 

The 12 apostles were promised rulership over the 12 tribes of Israel. Their rulership is under Christ, so it is just and righteous. Thrones symbolise rulership - kings.

                        `  you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones,

                                              judging the 12 tribes of Israel.`

                                                                                     (Matt. 19: 28)

                                                    

The City - The Covenant: faith in God.

            `And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city,....`

                                                                                                      (Rev. 21: 15)

 

The `gold reed,` speaks of faith in what God has promised. These people believed that God would take them to this city in the heavenlies. The shape is that of the Holy of Holies and is the place where God dwells by His Spirit and speaks to His people. 

       ` And the city is laid out as a square and its length is as great as its breadth.

                          And he measured the city with the reed;

                                         12 thousand furlongs.

               Its length, breadth, and height are equal.`                                                                                                                                   (Rev. 21: 16)

 

Furlongs – a fixed measurement  - fig. a covenant.  (Gk. `stao,`)

[Marilyn C]

The Precious Stones - Christ`s Rulership.  

The foundations of the walls are adorned with all kinds of precious stones. These were on the priest`s breastplate and represent Christ`s rulership. (Ex. 28: 15 – 21)

             Judgment – Heb. `mishpat,` meaning judgment, divine law, rulership. 

 

       `And the foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones:

                   the 1st  foundation was the jasper, the 2nd  sapphire, the 3rd  chalcedony,

    the 4th  emerald, the 5th  sardonyx, the 6th  sardius, the 7th  chrysolite, the 8th  beryl,

                the 9th  topaz, the 10th  chrysoprase, the 11th  jacinth, & the 12th  amethyst.`

                                                                      (Rev. 21: 19 & 20)

 

Christ the Conqueror.

1.  Jasper – Naphtali - `Conqueror.`                         

2.  Sapphire – Simeon – `voice of God.`                 

3.  Chalcedony – Zebulon - `dwelling.`                                                                          

Christ the conqueror, is the voice of God dwelling with His people.

 

Christ the KingPriest.                                                                                      

4.  Emerald – Reuben -  `first born, Heir.`              

5.  Sardonyx – Asher - `blessing, Priest.`               

6.  Sardius – Judah - `King, ruler.`

Christ the first born and heir rules as KingPriest giving spiritual blessings. 

 

Christ the Judge.                                                                                        

7.  Chrysolite – Gad - `administers judgments with justice.`        

8.  Beryl – Dan. - `Judge.`

9.  Topaz – Issachar - `wisdom.`

Christ the wise Judge who administers judgments with justice.

 

Christ at the Father`s Right Hand.

10. Chrysoprase – Manassah –`forgiveness` 

11. Jacinth – Ephraim  - `doubly fruitful.`

12. Amethyst – Benjamin - `At the right hand of the Father.`     

Christ at the Father`s right hand gives forgiveness & blessing.

 

                (The Stones – Ex: 28: 17 – 21,     The Tribes – Num. 10: 14 – 27, 

                             The Meanings – Gen. 29: 32, 30: 1 – 24,   35: 18)