What Is Christmas For You? The Birth of JESUS CHRIST or The Dumb Christmas Tree? = Matthew 1;18-21

[MizKJVOnly]

What Is Christmas For You? The Birth of JESUS CHRIST or The Dumb Christmas Tree? = Matthew 1;18-21

 

 

**The Birth of JESUS:

 

Matthew 1;18-21

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save his people from their sins.

 

Luke 1;30-33

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of his father David: And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

 

Matthew 2:1-2

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is He that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship Him.

 

Luke 1:35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

Luke 2:9-12

And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

 

**The Christmas Tree:

 

Isaiah 44:14-19

He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire;

And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?

 

Jeremiah 10:1-5

Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 

**The Reality:

 

Jeremiah 10:10-13

But the LORD is the true God, He is the living God, and an everlasting king: at His wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide His indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by His power, He hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by His discretion. When He uttereth His voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; He maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of His treasures.

 

John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

AMEN

[tim_from_pa]

Yeah I hear ya and been saying the same thing for awhile (with Scripture).  Traditions like the tree die hard, though. I laugh at a similar instance where the Jews don't know where that Passover eggs somehow crept into their Seder as well.  And coincidentally that Easter Bunny seems to have visited both Christians and Jews. People then justify it by making nice sounding stories about it, but the truth is there is no justification.  It's secular... just like the 4th of July so when I gather for the holidays with family, it means the same type of thing to me.  Everyone is off and I don't consider it sacred other than to be with family like summer holidays.  I must confess that the decorations are pretty, though. And besides, when was the last time (even with Christians) one really hears them talk about Jesus on the supposed birthday of the King except for maybe a quick eulogy type speech how we should be thankful for the babe (when talking about Jesus nobody says a baby but a babe). Then they rapidly go to the gift opening and celebration worldly style like the 4th of July.  Like I said, secular and nothing else.

Now for the actual birth date of Jesus Christ, I believe the Bible does tell us that in astronomical code that we (Sir Isaac Newton types) love.  We know it's found in Revelation 12:1.  A woman, a man-child, this nasty, hungry dragon, the sun and moon and all sorts of things that have symbolic meanings. But besides that, the description of a solar-lunar position in a "woman" (there's no woman in space except  with some astronauts, but of course John did not mean that).  The woman can also have other meanings but that same meaning is  depicted in the constellation.  Now there's only one woman in the Zodiac the sun passes through. And the moon is under her feet (i.e. new moon and the start of a month). And that woman was also depicted as a virgin in which the Revelation passage is flashing back to the time of Christ's birth.  To me it's clear - why describe this astronomical position at Christ's birth if the sun would be, say, at the winter solstice? But I understand that someone who does not click with astronomical language and code would not see that at all in a similar fashion an unbeliever does not see the work of the Holy Spirit nor believe the Bible (it's all 'coincidence' they say). So then they claim (especially theologians who are traditionally poor astronomers and mathematicians) the Bible does not say for sure the timing of His birth.  But whatever Jesus did, then and future, always centered around the feast days outlined in Leviticus 23.  And why's that?  Because those dates are God's appointments, determined astronomically, when He wanted to meet with mankind as well as was a shadow of things to come dealing with various stages of the redemption of mankind, and that redemption has the main character of Jesus Christ.

Now if you want a good laugh, search on youtube for these churches that have singing human Christmas trees.  But laugh to yourself.  There may be those who are spiritually young yet that actually believe that a singing human Christmas tree is pleasing in God's eyes.  Then tell them the truth in love without saying otherwise about their trees. A spiritual person will catch on.

[Jayne]

[missmuffet]

Christmas to me is the birth of Jesus Christ. I am against Santa Clause for Christmas. That is the way the world celebrates Christmas. There is nothing wrong with the Christimas tree. There is no evidence of a pagan religion in a Christmas tree. It is a choice. Whatever you do do it for the Glory of God. There is no spiritual significance in having a Christmas tree or not having a Christmas tree. 

[missmuffet]

9 hours ago, MizKJVOnly said:

What Is Christmas For You? The Birth of JESUS CHRIST or The Dumb Christmas Tree? = Matthew 1;18-21

 

 

**The Birth of JESUS:

 

Matthew 1;18-21

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save his people from their sins.

 

Luke 1;30-33

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of his father David: And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

 

Matthew 2:1-2

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is He that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen His star in the east, and are come to worship Him.

 

Luke 1:35

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

Luke 2:9-12

And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

 

**The Christmas Tree:

 

Isaiah 44:14-19

He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire;

And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?

 

Jeremiah 10:1-5

Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 

**The Reality:

 

Jeremiah 10:10-13

But the LORD is the true God, He is the living God, and an everlasting king: at His wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide His indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by His power, He hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by His discretion. When He uttereth His voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; He maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of His treasures.

 

John 3:16-21

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

AMEN

This is from Got Questions:

 It has been falsely claimed by some that Jeremiah 10:1-16 prohibits the cutting down and decorating of trees in the same manner as we do at Christmas. However, even a cursory reading of the text makes it clear that the passage is one in which Jeremiah sets forth the prohibition against idols made of wood, plated with silver and gold, and worshiped. A similar idea appears in Isaiah 44, where Isaiah speaks of the silliness of the idol-worshipers who cut down a tree, burn part of it in the fire to warm themselves, and use the other part to fashion an idol, which they then bow down to. So unless we bow down before our Christmas tree, carve it into an idol, and pray to it, these passages cannot be applied to Christmas trees.

[other one]

14 hours ago, missmuffet said:

This is from Got Questions:

 It has been falsely claimed by some that Jeremiah 10:1-16 prohibits the cutting down and decorating of trees in the same manner as we do at Christmas. However, even a cursory reading of the text makes it clear that the passage is one in which Jeremiah sets forth the prohibition against idols made of wood, plated with silver and gold, and worshiped. A similar idea appears in Isaiah 44, where Isaiah speaks of the silliness of the idol-worshipers who cut down a tree, burn part of it in the fire to warm themselves, and use the other part to fashion an idol, which they then bow down to. So unless we bow down before our Christmas tree, carve it into an idol, and pray to it, these passages cannot be applied to Christmas trees.

I do agree with the Biblical references you make here being carved idols, however there are several pagan worshipers who did worship evergreen trees and that came originally from the days of the tower of Babel.    And I know that God told Israel not to worship him the way the pagans worship their Gods.

[missmuffet]

50 minutes ago, other one said:

I do agree with the Biblical references you make here being carved idols, however there are several pagan worshipers who did worship evergreen trees and that came originally from the days of the tower of Babel.    And I know that God told Israel not to worship him the way the pagans worship their Gods.

Yes

[BeyondET]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:47 PM, tim_from_pa said:

Yeah I hear ya and been saying the same thing for awhile (with Scripture).  Traditions like the tree die hard, though. I laugh at a similar instance where the Jews don't know where that Passover eggs somehow crept into their Seder as well.  And coincidentally that Easter Bunny seems to have visited both Christians and Jews. People then justify it by making nice sounding stories about it, but the truth is there is no justification.  It's secular... just like the 4th of July so when I gather for the holidays with family, it means the same type of thing to me.  Everyone is off and I don't consider it sacred other than to be with family like summer holidays.  I must confess that the decorations are pretty, though. And besides, when was the last time (even with Christians) one really hears them talk about Jesus on the supposed birthday of the King except for maybe a quick eulogy type speech how we should be thankful for the babe (when talking about Jesus nobody says a baby but a babe). Then they rapidly go to the gift opening and celebration worldly style like the 4th of July.  Like I said, secular and nothing else.

Now for the actual birth date of Jesus Christ, I believe the Bible does tell us that in astronomical code that we (Sir Isaac Newton types) love.  We know it's found in Revelation 12:1.  A woman, a man-child, this nasty, hungry dragon, the sun and moon and all sorts of things that have symbolic meanings. But besides that, the description of a solar-lunar position in a "woman" (there's no woman in space except  with some astronauts, but of course John did not mean that).  The woman can also have other meanings but that same meaning is  depicted in the constellation.  Now there's only one woman in the Zodiac the sun passes through. And the moon is under her feet (i.e. new moon and the start of a month). And that woman was also depicted as a virgin in which the Revelation passage is flashing back to the time of Christ's birth.  To me it's clear - why describe this astronomical position at Christ's birth if the sun would be, say, at the winter solstice? But I understand that someone who does not click with astronomical language and code would not see that at all in a similar fashion an unbeliever does not see the work of the Holy Spirit nor believe the Bible (it's all 'coincidence' they say). So then they claim (especially theologians who are traditionally poor astronomers and mathematicians) the Bible does not say for sure the timing of His birth.  But whatever Jesus did, then and future, always centered around the feast days outlined in Leviticus 23.  And why's that?  Because those dates are God's appointments, determined astronomically, when He wanted to meet with mankind as well as was a shadow of things to come dealing with various stages of the redemption of mankind, and that redemption has the main character of Jesus Christ.

Now if you want a good laugh, search on youtube for these churches that have singing human Christmas trees.  But laugh to yourself.  There may be those who are spiritually young yet that actually believe that a singing human Christmas tree is pleasing in God's eyes.  Then tell them the truth in love without saying otherwise about their trees. A spiritual person will catch on.

Yea society should erase anything that has to do with Christianity, next the Bible probably.

[tim_from_pa]

4 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Yea society should erase anything that has to do with Christianity, next the Bible probably.

The Christmas tree controversy comes from within the Church, not the politically correct and progressive viewpoints we see going around these days.  As a matter of fact, they rather ban the nativity but everyone still tolerates the Christmas tree if we take notice.

I divided the decorations of Christmas into three main categories: 1) commercial, 2) traditional/cultural and finally the 3)"true meaning".  The first is Santa Claus, elves, toys North Pole and all that stuff based on a convoluted view of some Saint whose day was really early December but got mixed in with Christmas somehow. The reindeer and some objects are also merged from the next category, the traditional.  The traditional category are the trees, the evergreens, the garlands, ribbons (which represent that) and maybe even a few nice choir people and a church thrown in as a decoration. Much like Halloween, some of that has ancient Celtic ties. This in itself has to do with biblical prophecy about the house of Israel doing such things, but that's another story. Lastly there is the "true meaning" and needless to say that is about the birth of the Lord, shepherds, wise men, a star and any form of light.

Now that all said, some churches have an issue with the first two and the dating as December 25th was around a solstice. The Christians, so it is said (but not universally agreed upon) merged such celebrations of the sun god with the Son of God. That's what this thread is about. 

Some churches in the middle more denounced part of all that, namely category #1.  These are the "Jesus is the reason for the season" folks as they try to minimize excessive gift-giving and Santa Claus in favor of nativity sets and greenery and worshiping Christ, which is commendable.       

Now as for those erasing anything to do with Christianity, They would not tolerate category 3 at all, but would allow category 2 and for sure category 1.  To keep up with the times, Santa is even depicted lately as coming from various backgrounds to make all the kids supposedly comfortable.  This makes Santa a substitute Christ. This is what I would expect from a worldly system.

The whole subject is complex with many facets.  And this particular thread about the tree was going on for hundreds of years - not from the charged issues against Christianity of today. 

[tim_from_pa]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:20 AM, missmuffet said:

This is from Got Questions:

 It has been falsely claimed by some that Jeremiah 10:1-16 prohibits the cutting down and decorating of trees in the same manner as we do at Christmas. However, even a cursory reading of the text makes it clear that the passage is one in which Jeremiah sets forth the prohibition against idols made of wood, plated with silver and gold, and worshiped. A similar idea appears in Isaiah 44, where Isaiah speaks of the silliness of the idol-worshipers who cut down a tree, burn part of it in the fire to warm themselves, and use the other part to fashion an idol, which they then bow down to. So unless we bow down before our Christmas tree, carve it into an idol, and pray to it, these passages cannot be applied to Christmas trees.

Yes, I read this from "Got Questions".  The difference between decorating a Christmas tree and making an idol is just skipping the carving step.  So as I jested, if we "skip one step" does that make it any better?  And there's still the question that needs to be asked, if there's no power to do good nor evil in this thing, then what's the point of having it?  Frankly, I don't care if anyone has one or not as most people think it's just a pretty decoration and nobody I know of prays to it, either.  Rather, it's understood to be secular.