Thoughts On Atheism and Atheists

[Starise]

Talking about this subject on Worthy is a bit like mixing oil and water.

I have met atheists from varied backgrounds. Many if not most are great people who say they don't believe in God.

Most discussions with them are fruitless because they refuse to even entertain the idea of God.

I know what I would say if someone were asking me these questions, but I wanted some input from the forum on it.

This isn't necessarily to reinforce anything I believe and comes from no complexes on my part. IOW I am not the least bit shaky in my personal faith.

For me it has more to do with understanding and reaching those who claim to come from this persuasion.

As someone else said recently ( I think it was Kwik) we won't ever convince anyone who the Lord has not spoken to, and maybe more importantly, doesn't want to be convinced. For the record, those were not kwik's exact words.

Of course they make the same accusations toward us. That we refuse to see a reality.

I guess I'll kick this off by asking, if you have come into contact with these people? How did the dialog go?

If you won't talk to them at all, why? 

How many here were once atheist and came to the Lord? If so, what caused you to change?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Starise

[ayin jade]

I think the most important thing to do is pray. That their eyes and hearts open. That God gives you the words.

Then just talk to them. Have a dialogue. Dont have an attitude that you have to convince them right then.

Be honest. If you dont have an answer say so.

Otherwise i dont have a one size fits all approach.

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Talking about this subject on Worthy is a bit like mixing oil and water.

I have met atheists from varied backgrounds. Many if not most are great people who say they don't believe in God.

Most discussions with them are fruitless because they refuse to even entertain the idea of God.

I know what I would say if someone were asking me these questions, but I wanted some input from the forum on it.

This isn't necessarily to reinforce anything I believe and comes from no complexes on my part. IOW I am not the least bit shaky in my personal faith.

For me it has more to do with understanding and reaching those who claim to come from this persuasion.

As someone else said recently ( I think it was Kwik) we won't ever convince anyone who the Lord has not spoken to, and maybe more importantly, doesn't want to be convinced. For the record, those were not kwik's exact words.

Of course they make the same accusations toward us. That we refuse to see a reality.

I guess I'll kick this off by asking, if you have come into contact with these people? How did the dialog go?

If you won't talk to them at all, why? 

How many here were once atheist and came to the Lord? If so, what caused you to change?

Challenging questions to navigate through. As I understand it, our job is only to go and tell and share what Jesus did for us, our experience. Live a righteous life trying to walk in Jesus’s footsteps, letting the light shine as an example, and being witnesses seasoned with salt and light of the world. Provoke people to want to have what we have, security, joy, peace, love, and happiness.

We cannot convict anyone; that is the Holy Spirits’ job. There are all kinds of philosophical sayings and cliches. What is truth? “Your truth may not be my truth.” “Truth is in the eye of the beholder.”

As for myself, even before I heard the Gospel as a kid, I had an innate sense there was a God. I believe everyone is born with a measure of truth, and a free will to seek that truth. Later, knowledge, wisdom, and reasoning accumulated from book knowledge and observation.

Look at that tree; where did that tree come from? A seed. Where did that seed come from? A tree. Which had to appear first? The tree had to come first. Same way as what came first, the chicken or the egg 😊. How does a cardiovascular system evolve over eons? The miracle of the eyeball. The super complex ecological system that supports and maintains all life is so far beyond chance it had to be created and maintained—the order of our planet and cosmos.

Humans possess sentience, self-awareness, creativity, computation, math, creative art, music technology, and reasoning. My chickens do not even know they are chickens, much less I want my eggs no later than 10:00 A.M. sharp. They do not understand their Greek lexicon names, Pillow, Fried, Baked, BBQ, Dumplings, etc.

My one-year-old chickens are more intelligent than a one-year-old child. Taking them both 75 yards away from the house at sunset, the chickens return to their home before dark. Why?

Everyone is given a measure of truth in their hearts at birth, and one must suppress and reject that truth. Atheism is a religion; the religion, there is no God. Are there any true atheists, or are they in rebellion?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I think I will change my screen name to “Tangent.” If you change yours to “Bic, Gillette, or Nair.” LOL

[NCAP]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

Most discussions with them are fruitless because they refuse to even entertain the idea of God.

Well, maybe delve a little deeper and explain your idea of God. Or maybe talk about existences if the person is willing to talk about it. But somewhere along the line too you may need to tackle the subject called Epistemology.

What is knowledge?

What is belief?

What is justification? 

[Starise]

20 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Challenging questions to navigate through. As I understand it, our job is only to go and tell and share what Jesus did for us, our experience. Live a righteous life trying to walk in Jesus’s footsteps, letting the light shine as an example, and being witnesses seasoned with salt and light of the world. Provoke people to want to have what we have, security, joy, peace, love, and happiness.

We cannot convict anyone; that is the Holy Spirits’ job. There are all kinds of philosophical sayings and cliches. What is truth? “Your truth may not be my truth.” “Truth is in the eye of the beholder.”

As for myself, even before I heard the Gospel as a kid, I had an innate sense there was a God. I believe everyone is born with a measure of truth, and a free will to seek that truth. Later, knowledge, wisdom, and reasoning accumulated from book knowledge and observation.

Look at that tree; where did that tree come from? A seed. Where did that seed come from? A tree. Which had to appear first? The tree had to come first. Same way as what came first, the chicken or the egg 😊. How does a cardiovascular system evolve over eons? The miracle of the eyeball. The super complex ecological system that supports and maintains all life is so far beyond chance it had to be created and maintained—the order of our planet and cosmos.

Humans possess sentience, self-awareness, creativity, computation, math, creative art, music technology, and reasoning. My chickens do not even know they are chickens, much less I want my eggs no later than 10:00 A.M. sharp. They do not understand their Greek lexicon names, Pillow, Fried, Baked, BBQ, Dumplings, etc.

My one-year-old chickens are more intelligent than a one-year-old child. Taking them both 75 yards away from the house at sunset, the chickens return to their home before dark. Why?

Everyone is given a measure of truth in their hearts at birth, and one must suppress and reject that truth. Atheism is a religion; the religion, there is no God. Are there any true atheists, or are they in rebellion?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I think I will change my screen name to “Tangent.” If you change yours to “Bic, Gillette, or Nair.” LOL

Lol. I get a kick out of your posts Dennis.

Thanks for your thoughts on it.

I ask these same questions. For me, God is unavoidable. This is why I find it difficult to attempt to understand a person who makes the claim God doesn't exist.

19 hours ago, NCAP said:

Well, maybe delve a little deeper and explain your idea of God. Or maybe talk about existences if the person is willing to talk about it. But somewhere along the line too you may need to tackle the subject called Epistemology.

What is knowledge?

What is belief?

What is justification? 

This all looks interesting, but are we overcomplicating these things sometimes?

I have gone back and forth with people who claim to be men of science. What they tend to do is pull you into the scientific realm to prove or disprove an idea. They really dislike the idea of creation and they often cite references from other sources that seem to prove their claims. Among their peers they can look professional while steering away from any idea of a creator.

What it really seems to all boil down to in a nutshell is , their people have researched this. They are well respected. No one knows who you are and you are not a scientist, the Bible contradicts what we have found, therefore you are incorrect.The Bible is incorrect. If the Bible is incorrect, then the God of that Bible does not exist.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Starise

[NCAP]

18 hours ago, Starise said:

Talking about this subject on Worthy is a bit like mixing oil and water.

This isn't necessarily to reinforce anything I believe and comes from no complexes on my part. IOW I am not the least bit shaky in my personal faith.

For me it has more to do with understanding and reaching those who claim to come from this persuasion.

But here is the thing: If you feel or believe that Atheists are encroaching on your biblical turf, or you somehow see them as a threat to your own or anyone else's faith, then you are to follow the instructions found in the bible, that is, you are to "inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly" (Deuteronomy 13:14 BSB )

Now, you are right about trying to mix oil and water. They will always separate from each other unless you use an emulsifier.

But bear in mind, too, that it doesn't follow that an Atheist is also a scientist, nor are all scientists Atheists.

[Starise]

I don't feel even remotely challenged by them at all. 

God will always be the high ground. I stand only in question of how to approach someone who seems to be denying the obvious. 

I have been in discussions with Atheists who were using science. I have also spoken those those who don't as much, however those types still tend to defer to their scientific brethren when attempting to cross a bridge that does not exist.

[NCAP]

7 minutes ago, Starise said:

I don't feel even remotely challenged by them at all. 

God will always be the high ground. I stand only in question of how to approach someone who seems to be denying the obvious. 

I have been in discussions with Atheists who were using science. I have also spoken those those who don't as much, however those types still tend to defer to their scientific brethren when attempting to cross a bridge that does not exist.

Okay, you start an inquire into what is obvious to you and "why" it is not obvious to others.

So why is something obvious to you but not obvious to someone else?

1. Why is something obvious to Person A?

2. Why is something not obvious to Person B?

 

[Dave-regenerated]

I've interacted with Atheists for over 20 years on the internet and I even considered myself an Atheist too at one point.  It didn't last long as was rather depressing time in my life.

I've practically given up trying to engage with them now.  In real life it is different to the internet, so most of the Atheists I have encountered online seem to be straight out idiots.  They are not open to reason, often have poor arguments that when questioned on they evade as much as possible unless you probe very far and deeply, at which point they will become an agnostic.  And quite frankly most of them are just jerks.  Really massive jerks.  I truly believe they are satanically oppressed or even possessed.  I've attempted to reach out to some but it never goes anywhere.  And the main point about most of them is that they will concede agnosticism and say there COULD be a God, but it is not the God of the Bible to them.  That much they are very adamant about.  

So in my personal opinion, it is a waste of time engaging with them.

[Dennis1209]

34 minutes ago, NCAP said:

But bear in mind, too, that it doesn't follow that an Atheist is also a scientist, nor are all scientists Atheists.

True, we have some creation scientists also. However, our public schools and institutions of higher learning have been hijacked by religion, the religion of atheism; there is no God; everything evolved over millions and millions of years.

There is not ample room for critical thinking and debate in the classroom anymore. If you do not go along with the established program, you are ostracized, lose tenure, are not published or peer-reviewed, and are labeled.

Science is testing, observable, and repeatable. Today flawed theory is constantly changing but always adhering to evolution.

An example: So-called science has hit a roadblock with DNA. It is so complex that many “scientists” cannot defend its evolved position; it has to be engineered. They have introduced the theory of panspermia not to upset the apple cart and maintain the status quo—anything or anyone other than the actual Creator.