Catholicism vs Christianity

[JohnD]

3 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

If someone were to approach me while I'm sipping this cup of coffee and ask, "So, Marathoner, about that nifty graphic @Omegaman 3.0 posted... whaddya think? After the 'reformation' line started, who do you admire the most?"

Here's what I would say:

"Well, my fine fellow, I think the Anabaptists were courageous servants of the Lord who risked their lives in obedience to His word. Not only were they hunted, imprisoned, tortured, and put to death by Roman Catholic authorities for their unyielding insistence that God's word is the highest authority, but they were also chased by Reformed authorities to boot. Everyone had it in for the Anabaptists!"

Their steadfast belief in the authority of scripture and adult baptism resulted in their persecution by Rome and Protestants alike. Something to think about.  

Truth in the hands of humans can be a dangerous thing.

The underlying point of scripture from Genesis to Revelation is that

human nature is satanic (Matthew 16:23 / John 8:44) with numerous other

passages to support this.

We like to think of ourselves in this cliché of middle ground:

 

but this is untrue about humanity. We were sold into slavery to sin (the devil) since Genesis 3.

Jesus warned against deception, the Apostles warned against deception, and Jesus also warned

that the traditions of men nullify the word of God (Mark 7:13) and make void even the worship

of him (Mark 7:7).

So, when man / the traditions of man enter into any venue (even faith in Jesus) it destroys not

saves.

And as I pointed out in previous posts the Protestant Movement was not the cure-all for Roman Catholicism. 

And factions of humanism / human reason rater than submission to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13) in all aspects

of life and faith end up with satanic results.

[JohnD]

I also pointed out a false teaching* of Protestantism. That the Father is Creator in Genesis when in fact the Son

(preincarnate clearly is).

The fact of the matter is, there are no sacred cows.

All must be scrutinized by the biblical proof method

2 Peter 1:20-21

1 John 4:1 / 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17

* one of many

Edited May 23, 2022 by JohnD

[Marathoner]

Here's a historical example of an Anabaptist to add to the above. Let's consider the example of Dirk Willems.

Dirk was one of those heretics who believed that scripture, and not fleshly ecclesiastical authority, is the yardstick by which all things are measured. Like the rest of those Anabaptist apostates during the 16th century, he dared to be re-baptized as an adult! This burned the toast of Catholic bishops and Protestant authorities alike. 

The Anabaptists were denounced as heretics by Rome and their freshly-minted children, the Reformed churches. Bounties were issued upon their misbegotten heads, so secular forces and mercenaries alike pursued Anabaptists under contract. Dirk was seized and imprisoned...

But our brother managed to escape his bonds. He was running like the wind one frozen winter night and because he was light of weight and fleet of foot, he made it across a frozen body of water without a crack in the ice. Ah, but the same couldn't be said of his armed pursuer. The poor fellow fell into the icy water! So, what did Dirk do?

He turned around and rescued his pursuer from an icy doom. It was at this time that the dungeon honchos arrived on the scene. Dirk's pursuer said that he found no fault with this man, and that he was going to let him go. Ah, but the head honchos pitched a fit about this, reminding the deputy of his contractual obligation to seize the heretic and deliver him to justice.

Dirk didn't protest. The deputy put him in irons and returned this servant of Christ to prison. Dirk Willems was burned at the stake soon afterward. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Marathoner
typos

[B-B]

5 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Here's a historical example of an Anabaptist to add to the above. Let's consider the example of Dirk Willems.

Dirk was one of those heretics who believed that scripture, and not fleshly ecclesiastical authority, is the yardstick by which all things are measured. Like the rest of those Anabaptist apostates during the 16th century, he dared to be re-baptized as an adult! This burned the toast of Catholic bishops and Protestant authorities alike. 

The Anabaptists were denounced as heretics by Rome and their freshly-minted children, the Reformed churches. Bounties were issued upon their misbegotten heads, so secular forces and mercenaries alike pursued Anabaptists under contract. Dirk was seized and imprisoned...

But our brother managed to escape his bonds. He was running like the wind one frozen winter night and because he was light of weight and fleet of foot, he made it across a frozen body of water without a crack in the ice. Ah, but the same couldn't be said of his armed pursuer. The poor fellow fell into the icy water! So, what did Dirk do?

He turned around and rescued his pursuer from an icy doom. It was at this time that the dungeon honchos arrived on the scene. Dirk's pursuer said that he found no fault with this man, and that he was going to let him go. Ah, but the head honchos pitched a fit about this, reminding the deputy of his contractual obligation to seize the heretic and deliver him to justice.

Dirk didn't protest. The deputy put him in irons and returned this servant of Christ to prison. Dirk Willems was burned at the sake soon afterward. 

An interesting read....

[Sower]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not very please with the way you have describe them, and they way you think about them. 

In paragraph two, the first allegation is that they do not read scripture, and the second is that they believe that as long as someone goes to church he will be OK. 

I'm not very pleased also in describing them, because it is the TRUTH, and your personal feelings do not come into play when I have a burden to share the gospel with my loved ones. Only two answered my questions. The rest have assaulted my disclosure of my personal understandings of people I have lived with my entire life who have no desire towards God and His truth in the written word. Most have never heard they must be saved, born again, or that it takes faith and not being/doing good to get to heaven, and they believe they have to confess sins to a sinful man every so often, go to mass a few times a year, say a few prayers to their statues/pictures of Mary, and trust in the fact that they belong to the long line of ancestors before them who also performed the same rituals. They do not read scripture and cannot quote more than one or two verses, maybe, and have no understanding what salvation by grace through faith means. THAT'S how I describe them, and if you are a bible believing born again Christian with loved ones like I have you would have a tremendous burden to share the gospel with tears. Brother.

10 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am sure that you know that someone is Justified in the eyes Jesus Christ because he believes that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins...the scripture says with the heart man believes unto righteousness, or when anyone believes that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins, his sins are forgiven...he is in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, that can happen without someone reading the scriptures and outside any church...

They do not have to be disciples and teachers of the Gospel to be in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.  They only need to believe, by faith alone...

This how God wanted it to be, and he has no regrets about it.

I understand the gospel. I do not judge someone who TELLS me they are saved, and have the words of  the gospel, however awkward their response. It's a simple understanding. A little child can understand!  I am serious when I an dealing with presenting the word, truth, concerning the eternal destiny of a fellow human being. The purpose in my "facetious"  post was to see how many attacked my desire to share scripture though someone may be offended, vs the burden to get the truth of the gospel to them, even when it (the truth of the gospel) is offensive to them. Thank you YCF for letting me know your stand.

[Marathoner]

15 minutes ago, B-B said:

An interesting read....

It's from Martyr's Mirror, a historical accounting of the persecution, torture, and execution of Dutch Anabaptists during the 16th century. My old friend Paul had a copy of that book in his library, so I grabbed it and read every page. Dirk Willems is one of the most famous examples of persecuted Anabaptists.  

[ayin jade]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

The Holy Spirit will do the convicting if I can leave my 'self' out of the discussion. Thanks for your reply!

That is the important part. I think all too many put the salvation of others on themselves instead of recognizing that its the Lord who gives us the words, opens the hearts. On our own, we cant save anyone. 

1 Corinthians 3

6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 

[Starise]

9 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

That is the important part. I think all too many put the salvation of others on themselves instead of recognizing that its the Lord who gives us the words, opens the hearts. On our own, we cant save anyone. 

1 Corinthians 3

6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 

SOMEONE needs to plant and SOMEONE Needs to water. We aren't "hands off".

Romans 10:14 ESV-

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

 

 

[B-B]

12 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

It's from Martyr's Mirror, a historical accounting of the persecution, torture, and execution of Dutch Anabaptists during the 16th century. My old friend Paul had a copy of that book in his library, so I grabbed it and read every page. Dirk Willems is one of the most famous examples of persecuted Anabaptists.  

I appreciate the share @Marathoner 😊 Dirk was certainly an inspiring man

[Marathoner]

Indeed! Dirk's an example for us all. 

So here is where I believe many teachers are in error. I'm thinking specifically about evangelical teachers who preach that tribulation is in our future, as if the faithful of Jesus Christ haven't been persecuted and martyred for the past two thousand years. 

At times and in diverse places, this persecution and death has even been delivered to the saints by some who profess the name of Christ. 

The Son of Man, our Lord and Savior, was the first of many brethren. This is in keeping with the word of God which teaches us that He is first in all things. Stephen the deacon and the apostles (with the notable exception of John) were next in the order of things, imprisoned and executed for the sake of the Lord. The Anabaptists were by no means the end of our persecution on this earth; their example is just another chapter in what followed the closing of the canon of scripture after the days of the apostles.

At times this persecution has been great indeed, so horrific that I won't go into the grisly details of what our brothers and sisters suffered. The persecution of the saints behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War years was unspeakable. Richard Wurmbrand (Nicolai Ionescu) testified of great tribulation during his own incarceration and torture at the hands of Communist oppressors. 

Apart from all of this, over time there have been events taking place on this earth which defy reason and sanity, the likes of which were never seen before their day. Great tribulation isn't a future event, my friends. It has been going on for a very long time. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Marathoner