God did not teach us these things

[LearningToLetGo]

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

If we accept that "sons of God" means humans then this passage simply says that people married and had babies. That's a flowery way to state the obvious.

[Justin Adams]

18 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The interpretation of Psalm 89:6,7 is also debated.

Ps. 89:6,7 (Webster)

6 For who in the heaven can be compared to the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened to the LORD?
  7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence by all them that are about him.

Does the latter part of verse 6 and verse 7 refer to angels, or men?  It could be interpreted either way.

Qumran says Sons of God. Only pre 2010 commentaries say otherwise. Interpretation is NOT relevant. Check out the Hebrew - bene Elohim.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Justin Adams

[LearningToLetGo]

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The prose is a bit awkward since it's written in a backwards, Yoda-like speech. If we streamline it we get the following: When the sons of God mated with the daughters of men, the women bore children who were giants - the mighty and renown men of old.

We can grant a bit of poetic license and read "giants" in a figurative sense. I think that's what most people do. However, we have one instance of a literal giant in the Bible, e.g. Goliath. Perhaps he also should be granted poetic license. Maybe he's "giant" in the sense that a basketball player is giant. But don't forget what we find in Numbers 13:33 :

"33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

Grasshoppers? Really? Perhaps this is also poetic license. I think that's how most read it. But this opens up a mighty can of worms. If we grant that the historical portions of the OT are subject to poetic license then it has the potential to unravel the whole thing. For example, the garden of Eden story. Is that also subject to poetic license?

I'm not making a thesis here. I don't claim to know what is and is not poetic versus what is and is not literal, but I am saying it's a non-trivial question and worthy of approaching seriously since it's this poetry-vs-literal that is the main stumbling block many have to embracing the Bible.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by LearningToLetGo
forgot a word

[Hopefully]

2 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

we have one instance of a literal giant in the Bible,

Here are a couple more but I have read a few.
 

“So those men gave a report that discouraged the people. They said, “The land we saw is full of strong people. They are strong enough to easily defeat anyone who goes there. We saw the giant Nephilim people there! (The descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim.) We felt like little grasshoppers. Yes, we were like grasshoppers to them!””
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭13:32-33‬ ‭

“Later, there was another battle with the Philistines at Gob. Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Saph, another one of the giants. Later, there was another battle at Gob against the Philistines. Elhanan the son of Jaare Oregim from Bethlehem killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath from Gath. His spear was as big as a post. There was another battle at Gath. There was a very large man who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. He had 24 fingers and toes in all. This man was also one of the giants.”
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭21:18-20‬ ‭

 

[Starise]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:35 PM, anynmsfmly said:

What is a vibrational frequency technology ? Is it anything like the plague that plagues me around the living room ? 

I will jump back in briefly to answer this because you asked me and I owe you an answer. Not sure if you were attempting humor here in that last question or not.

In the lab different vibrations at different frequencies have different effect on the surrounding room or on the things in a room. If I vibrate a table surface at the right frequency the things on the table begin to move around. If we could further harness this energy larger objects could be moved.This is the theory around some ancient writings that state people seen large rocks move around with no seen force. It's also called acoustic levitation. Here's a LINK on it if you care to read about  it. It is a theory based on some ancient claims by those who seen some of these structures built.

So far the concept has been proven in a lab using smaller objects. I think they were using something we are still learning about to build some of these structures.

 

[teddyv]

2 Kings 3:26-27

26 When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.

As I understand, ANE battles were not just between the people, but were also considered to be between the gods. Here the Moabite king makes a desperate appeal to his god with the sacrifice of his son, and while no victory is had, an obviously vicious defense was maintained.

[other one]

5 hours ago, Starise said:

I will jump back in briefly to answer this because you asked me and I owe you an answer. Not sure if you were attempting humor here in that last question or not.

In the lab different vibrations at different frequencies have different effect on the surrounding room or on the things in a room. If I vibrate a table surface at the right frequency the things on the table begin to move around. If we could further harness this energy larger objects could be moved.This is the theory around some ancient writings that state people seen large rocks move around with no seen force. It's also called acoustic levitation. Here's a LINK on it if you care to read about  it. It is a theory based on some ancient claims by those who seen some of these structures built.

So far the concept has been proven in a lab using smaller objects. I think they were using something we are still learning about to build some of these structures.

 

I read an article several years ago that said that they believed that was the way coral castle was built.  Seems like it's one thing to move heavy things, but to lift them with it is kind of over my head so to speak.

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Qumran says Sons of God. Only pre 2010 commentaries say otherwise. Interpretation is NOT relevant. Check out the Hebrew - bene Elohim.

Sons of God can refer to angels (and I can't recall it ever referring to fallen angels, although there could be a reference somewhere) or godly men, so this makes no difference.

[Waggles]

20 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

Can we in anywise say that there is appointed in heaven an angel by the name of Phanuel who is given to preside over those prophet voices that declared in the Temple that they had seen with their own eyes the Salvation of the Lord as Christ was borne up in the arms of the prophet Simeon which was by the power of the Holy Spirit? Do the angels now direct the Holy Spirit?

You have responded to my post without reading it and have immediately reacted with your bias and loathing of Michael Heiser. 

Neither the Book of Enoch nor I make any claim that angels are responsible for salvation. 

The issue is that angels and other spirit beings in the heavenly realm are given responsibilities for peoples and events here on earth. Angels are involved as ministering spirits to attend to nations and individuals. I and many other saints have testimonies to angels coming to our aid in times of peril, etc. 

Daniel 10:11  And he said to me, “O Daniel, man greatly loved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for now I have been sent to you.” And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling.

Daniel 10:21  But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince.

Daniel 12:1  “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

Joshua 5:13  When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” 
14  And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the LORD. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” 

Rev 12:7  Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 
8  but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Waggles

[appy]

No one is denying that angels are mentioned in scripture. But that, there is NO mention in scripture specifically of an angel named “Phanuel”, or that he “presides over repentance, and hope”. This is only found in the book of Enoch.