Tribulation, Great Tribulation, and Daniel's 70th Week

[not an echo]

Hello all,

As everything I have ever put forth on the Worthy Christian Forums, I put this forth for everyone's consideration.  Realize, that on my end, it is far less important whether I am right or wrong on anything or everything and far more important that we are all ready---come what may.

Concerning tribulation, great tribulation, and Daniel's 70th Week (commonly referred to as the Seven Year Tribulation Period), consider:

The night before Jesus was crucified, He said to His first disciples, as recorded in John 16,

 33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace.  In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347), but be of good cheer;  I have overcome the world.

The first time we find the word "tribulation" in the New Testament, Jesus speaks it in a parable, as recorded in Matthew 13:

 21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while:  for when TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347) or persecution ariseth because of the Word, by and by he is offended.

Years after Christ's ascension, Paul wrote unto "the church of the Thessalonians" this, as recorded in I Thessalonians 3:

  4   For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347);  even as it came to pass, and ye know.

The same word "tribulation" (thlipsis/G2347) is used similarly over 15 other times in the New Testament.  Moreover, the Greek word thlipsis (G2347) is also translated "affliction" over 10 times and in other ways (see Strong's Concordance).

Continuing, the week Jesus was crucified, He told the disciples the following concerning Daniel's 70th Week, as recorded in Matthew 24:

 21  For then shall be GREAT (megas/G3173) TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

In Acts 7, Stephen recounts before the Sanhedrin the history of Israel and says the following concerning the famine that came in the days Joseph was promoted in Egypt and his family came to him for corn.  The account reads,

 11  Now there came a dearth over all the land of Egypt and Chanaan, and GREAT (megas/G3173) AFFLICTION (thlipsis/G2347):  and our fathers found on sustenance.

In The Revelation, Jesus tells John to write the following in a warning to the church in Thyatira, in reference to "that woman Jezebel" (2:20).  He is told to write,

 22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT (megas/G3173) TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347), except they repent of their deeds.

It is helpful to realize that the word "great" (megas/G3173) is used very often in the New Testament.  The first time is found in Matthew 2:

 10  When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding GREAT (megas/G3173) joy.

Later, we read the following in Matthew 8,

 24  And, behold, there arose a GREAT (megas/G3173) tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves:  but He was asleep.

Interestingly, notice what happened when Jesus rebuked the tempest, as recorded a couple of verses later:

 26  And He saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?  Then He arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea;  and there was a GREAT (megas/G3173) calm.

I would just like to pause to say that however great may be one's fear, Christ can bring as great a calm into his or her life!

The word "great" (megas/G3173) is used well over 100 times in the New Testament.

Now, concerning the time of the fulfilling of Daniel's 70th Week, we have all heard a lot about how there is going to be great tribulation then---and there certainly will be.  We looked at what Jesus said concerning this time above, but let's look at it again, paying close attention to what I have now emphasized.  Again, from Matthew 24 we read,

 21  For then shall be great (megas/G3173) tribulation (thlipsis/G2347), SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE.

According to Jesus, there never has been, and there never will be again, tribulation as great as there will be during that time.  Sobering to think about, huh?  I think that our present generation has not thought about this nearly enough.

Of course, much more can be said about tribulation, great tribulation, and Daniel's 70th Week.  We know that in this life, we are going to have tribulation, and sometimes it is going to be great.  In my humble opinion, because of the event of the rapture, none who are saved at the time of this event will experience the tribulation of Daniel's 70th Week.  It is those who are not saved at the time of the rapture who will experience that.  Also, important to understand is that the event of the rapture can happen at any time---even this very day.  For those reading these words who have never been saved, it would not be a wise thing to turn Christ's offer of salvation away in hopes of the possibility of being saved during the time of Daniel's 70th Week.  As we find written in I Corinthians 6, "behold, now is the accepted time;  behold now is the day of salvation" (vs. 2).  No one has any assurance whatsoever that they will survive what will befall that day long enough to even be in the number of those who reject the mark of the beast (Rev. 13:16-18;  14:9-13;  15:1-4).

For those who may be interested, these thoughts also relate to A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70th Week Rapture Interpretation that I have.  Following is the link to my master thread by that name, which also gives links to all the other threads that I have started so far, which pertain to this subject.  Some of these threads have now gotten quite long.  My encouragement would be to at least read my opening post(s) of each thread.  Further, I am not finished responding in any of my threads.  But, I am often limited on time.

(https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/)

Edited February 3, 2023 by not an echo

[Selah7]

Respectfully, not an echo, since I do not hold to a pre-trib rapture, is there anything I can contribute to this thread?  ….probably not?  I enjoyed reading your post, however, so “thanks!” 

selah . . .

[R. Hartono]

Wise virgins are taken to the wedding, Foolish virgins left behind in sorrow as they failed the test to keep the Oil. The testing is now.

Edited August 9, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 8/9/2021 at 4:09 PM, R. Hartono said:

Wise virgins are taken to the wedding, Foolish virgins left behind in sorrow as they failed the test to keep the Oil. The testing is now.

Odd though how Jesus said:

“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom."

All ten virgins are in that parable when the story starts. Notices that it starts with "Then"!

We should be asking, when is the then that Jesus is referring to. The answer of course, is what he had just said:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . ."

Putting 2 and 2 together in Jesus' monologue of Matt 24 and 25, we see that immediately after the tribulation of those days, the kingdom will be like ten virgins, who were expecting the Bridegroom to come. Why should we go out of our way to conceive a pre-tribulation rapture which the Bible never mentions? I'll take Jesus' word for it!

 

 

[R. Hartono]

50 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Odd though how Jesus said:

“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom."

All ten virgins are in that parable when the story starts. Notices that it starts with "Then"!

We should be asking, when is the then that Jesus is referring to. The answer of course, is what he had just said:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . ."

Putting 2 and 2 together in Jesus' monologue of Matt 24 and 25, we see that immediately after the tribulation of those days, the kingdom will me like ten virgins, who were expecting the Bridegroom to come. Why should be go out of our way to conceive a pre-tribulation rapture that the Bible never mentions? I'll take Jesus' word for it!

 

 

Those who don't believe in pretrib rapture shall be taken if they hv the Oil.

Those who believe in pretrib rapture shall be left behind if they hv no Oil, when Jesus send His angels to gather the elect be4 antichrist is empowered to conquer the world with the 1st seal opening.

Edited August 10, 2021 by R. Hartono

[appy]

@R. Hartono

There are people who enjoy the benefits of the Christian community without true love for Christ. Such are people who have an outward belief. But the necessary grace isn’t there. They have built a religious house, but they have no real relationship to God.

Such persons are NOT ready for death or Christ's return. And do not need to wait for the beast and Antichrist or tribulation, to be on the scene in order to not be ready for Christs return. For they already are NOT ready for Christ's return by their unbelief in the life, death and risen Savior. Once an unbeliever dies, there is no second change and no admittance into heaven.

In the Matthew 25 passages, the request of oil is something that none of us can transfer to other people. Salvation is non-transferable. You cannot transfer any part of your salvation to other people. Each person must make the choice for Christ on his or her own. It is unwise to reject the gospel message.

The person who truly heeds the gospel message is a person who is exercising wisdom and is ready and waiting for he or she has a true love for Christ. They have appetite for God’s Word and God’s will in their lives. They exhibit genuine fruits of the Holy Spirit, that can be seen.

 

 

[appy]

@R. Hartono

Actually, Matthew 25 doesn't say anything about being left behind, but an illustration of what the Kingdom of heaven is like.

Luke 17:20-21

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,  nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Some translations say “within you”.

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

I would just like to point out that in 70AD all of the OP title was fulfilled.

It is quite possible that other tribulations will occur, yet we are firmly told that He will raise up all at the end of time.

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, appy said:

@R. Hartono

Actually, Matthew 25 doesn't say anything about being left behind, but an illustration of what the Kingdom of heaven is like.

Luke 17:20-21

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,  nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Some translations say “within you”.

 

 

 

Cud u kindly teach me how to quote my name like that ?

[WilliamL]

On 8/9/2021 at 1:27 PM, not an echo said:

Continuing, the week Jesus was crucified, He told the disciples the following concerning Daniel's 70th Week, as recorded in Matthew 24:

 21  For then shall be GREAT (megas/G3173) TRIBULATION (thlipsis/G2347), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Note that He said nothing here about Daniel's 70th week. Never mentioned it, ever, in His ministry.

So this is all pure presumption on your part. And multitudes of others.

The following two blog posts examine the evidence:

44. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 6: Do Verses 26b-27 Prophesy Future Events?

Lists the seven specific prophecies found in Daniel 9:26b-27, and tests whether the belief that they will be fulfilled in the future can be substantiated by other biblical End Time prophecies.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1605-daniel-924-27-examined-part-6-do-verses-26b-27-prophesy-future-events/

45. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

Tests the view that the seven prophesied events were fulfilled during the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D. Also, explains the reason for the time-gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/