Are We Predestined?

[tooldtocare]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:04 AM, steve morrow said:

PREDESTINED / CHOSEN

God chose them but He could not force them to obey His word

(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

(Deu 7:7 KJV) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV)  And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:19 KJV)  Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

 (Deu 24:19 KJV)  When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV)  When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV)  When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV)  Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

That gathering occurred in 1947ad

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

What changed ??????

 

Are We Predestined?

No, God gave us the ability to choose what we do

Edited October 14, 2020 by tooldtocare
change ending comment

[steve morrow]

PREDESTINED / CHOSEN  --  HOW

 

NEHEMIAH 8:8  so they  --READ--  in the book in the law of  GOD  distinctly and caused them to ---UNDERSTAND  THE  READING---

 

AGAIN  ---  2 THESSALONIANS 2:13  but we are bound to give thanks always to  GOD  for you brethren beloved of  THE  LORD  because   ---GOD  HATH  FROM  THE  BEGINNING  CHOSEN  YOU--- to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth 

 

EPHESIANS 3:4  whereby  --WHEN  YOU  READ--  you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of  CHRIST  

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

[David1701]

On 10/15/2020 at 1:44 PM, steve morrow said:

PREDESTINED / CHOSEN  --  HOW

 

NEHEMIAH 8:8  so they  --READ--  in the book in the law of  GOD  distinctly and caused them to ---UNDERSTAND  THE  READING---

 

AGAIN  ---  2 THESSALONIANS 2:13  but we are bound to give thanks always to  GOD  for you brethren beloved of  THE  LORD  because   ---GOD  HATH  FROM  THE  BEGINNING  CHOSEN  YOU--- to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth 

 

EPHESIANS 3:4  whereby  --WHEN  YOU  READ--  you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of  CHRIST  

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

That is not how we were chosen and predestined (these things are distinct, although related); it is part of the means God uses, to bring those whom he chose and predestined, to Jesus.

[steve morrow]

BECAUSE  GOD  SAYS  SO  -- or JUST a mere man

MATTHEW 15:16  AND  JESUS  SAID  ARE  YOU  ALSO  YET  WITHOUT  UNDERSTANDING  

 

2 TIMOTHY 3:16  all scripture is given by inspiration of  GOD  and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness 

LUKE 4:4  and  JESUS  answered him saying it is written that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of  GOD 

 

JOHN 5:34 BUT  I  RECEIVE  NOT  TESTIMONY  FROM  MAN  BUT  THESE  THINGS  --I  SAY--  THAT  YOU  MIGHT  BE  SAVED 

PSALM 56:5  EVERY  DAY  THEY  WREST  MY  WORDS  ALL  THEIR  THOUGHTS  ARE  AGAINST  ME  FOR  EVIL

PSALM 60:11 GIVE  US  HELP  FROM  TROUBLE  FOR ---VAIN  IS  THE  HELP  OF  MAN---

 

TITUS 2:6  young men likewise exhort to be soberminded  --2:7--  in all things showing thyself a pattern of good works in doctrine showing uncorruptness gravity sincerity  --2:8--  sound speech that cannot be condemned that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed having no evil thing to say of you 

 

JOHN 8:43 WHY  DO  YOU  NOT  UNDERSTAND  MY  SPEECH  EVEN  BECAUSE  YOU  CANNOT  HEAR  MY  WORD 

2 PETER 1:3  ACCORDING  AS  HIS  DIVINE  POWER  --HATH  GIVEN--  UNTO  US  ALL  THINGS  THAT  PERTAIN  UNTO  LIFE  AND  GODLINESS  THROUGH  THE  KNOWLEDGE  OF  HIM  THAT  HATH  CALLED  US  TO  GLORY  AND  VIRTUE 

 

JEREMIAH  35:13  THUS  SAITH  THE  LORD  OF  HOSTS  THE  GOD  OF  ISRAEL  GO  AND  TELL  THE  MEN  OF  JUDAH  AND  THE  INHABITANTS  OF  JERUSALEM  WILL YOU  NOT  RECEIVE  INSTRUCTION  TO  ---HEARKEN  TO  MY  WORDS--- SAITH  THE  LORD

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Proof-texting is a practice that should be avoided. Serial proof-texting all the more so. John 8:43, for example, was not said about Christians and it does not apply to us. It was a statement firmly rooted in the determinism of Old Testament prophesy that had manifested itself that day when Jesus was preaching to those God had made blind and deaf, unseeing and unhearing, unperceiving and not-understanding. It is, therefore, a very poor verse to use when explaining soteriological predestination. 

Likewise, 2 Peter 1:3 is written by and to and about those already saved so it isn't, strictly speaking, about how we are saved. That audience is already saved and Peter is reporting on that which the already-saved possess. That verse isn't about how that salvation figured in predestination. 

 

You'll forgive me for singling out this one post; it just happens to be an obvious example. As I read through many of these posts I see many of them contained proof-texting. When the individual verses are examined in their inherent and stated context they do not state what they are bein made to say. 

I would suggest that any and all discussion of soteriological predestination beging with the beginning: 

Genesis 1:1 
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." 

John 1:1-5
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was in the beginning with God.  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.  In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.  The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

Colossians 1:13-20
"For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,  in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.  He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.  For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven."

1 Peter 1:17-21
"If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;  knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,  but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.  For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you  who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God." 

I don't know how the matter of predestination can be addressed apart from whole scripture that begins with the beginning. Our salvation was decided in some way, shape, or form, before the world was created. To understand what "Christ" means is necessarily to have some necessary understand of his body. There is no Christ apart from Christ's body! 

And he was foreknown as such prior to the world's foundation. 

I am sorely tempted to interject a bit of looking at 'Eve' to splice into what you have said here--which is wonderfully stated. Everything is about Christ. But I am planning to put together a bit on Eve.

:-)

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

Can't wait to read it.

 

How's the Schaeffer book coming?

Slow--I have been rather busy over the last several weeks. I plan to continue soon.

Thought provoking in a contextual way. He is really good at synthesizing or should I say what he writes promotes the synthesis of many things that have rattled around in my head for a long time.

[steve morrow]

DULL  OF  HEARING??

*******2 THESSALONIANS 2:13  BUT  WE  ARE  BOUND  TO  GIVE  THANKS  ALWAYS  TO  GOD  FOR  YOU  BRETHREN  BELOVED  OF  THE  LORD  BECAUSE  GOD  HATH  FROM ---THE  BEGINNING  CHOSEN  YOU  TO  SALVATION  THROUGH  SANCTIFICATION  OF  ---THE  SPIRIT---AND  BELIEF  OF  THE  TRUTH*******

 

ROMANS 2:11  for there is --NO  RESPECT-- of persons with  GOD

ACTS 10:34  then peter opened his mouth his mouth and said of a --TRUTH-- I perceive that  GOD  is no respecter of persons  --10:35--  but in every nation he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is accepted with him 

 

PROVERBS 8:7  for  MY MOUTH  shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY LIPS  --8:8-- ALL -- the words of  MY  MOUTH  are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

JOHN 14:6  JESUS  saith unto him I am --THE WAY----THE  TRUTH----AND THE LIFE-- no one cometh unto  THE  FATHER  but by  ME

2 JOHN 1:4 I  REJOICED  GREATLY  THAT  I  FOUND  OF  THY  CHILDREN  WALKING  IN  TRUTH  AS  WE  HAVE  RECEIVED  A  COMMANDMENT  FROM  THE  FATHER  

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that  --I  SPEAK-- unto you they are spirit and they are life 

JOHN 17:17  SANCTIFY  THEM  THROUGH  THY  TRUTH  THY  WORD  IS  TRUTH

 

ACTS 28:26  SAYING  GO  UNTO  THIS  PEOPLE  AND  SAY  HEARING  YOU  SHALL  HEAR  AND  SHALL  NOT  UNDERSTAND  AND  SEEING  YOU  SHALL  SEE  AND  NOT  PERCEIVE 

--28:27--  FOR  THE  HEART  OF  THIS  PEOPLE  IS  WAXED  GROSS AND  THEIR EARS  ---ARE  DULL  OF  HEARING---  AND  THEIR  EYES  HAVE  THEY  CLOSED  LEST  THEY  SHOULD  SEE  WITH  THEIR  EYES  AND  HEAR  WITH  THEIR  EARS  AND  UNDERSTAND  WITH  THEIR  HEART  AND  SHOULD  BE  CONVERTED  AND  I  SHOULD  HEAL  THEM 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[TheBlade]

I think something else unless it was already said should be weighed also is.. when God was saying let those other Gods look at the past to tell the future "“Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter, That we may know that you are gods; Yes, do good or do evil, That we may be dismayed and see it together." "Who has declared from the beginning, that we may know? And former times, that we may say, ‘He is righteous’? Surely there is no one who shows, Surely there is no one who declares, Surely there is no one who hears your words."

I think there's more to this then just God stands out side of time and  knows the end from the beginning. '.I praying its not like ground hog day where "maybe hes not omnipotent, hes just been around so long he knows everything". haha

The most important thing left out is faith. We can't even please Him unless its by faith. He doesnt look at the past if He already saw the whole future. Wanna see the future? Look at the past. Just thinking..