Jesus was holding the scroll, how can He became the white horse rider of the 1st Seal ?

[R. Hartono]

Its totally a blunder, many christians claim that the 1st seal of white horse rider is Jesus Christ.

Rev 6:1  I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” ² I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on CONQUEST.

Because Jesus was standing there holding the scroll, how can He then be transformed as the 1st Seal's white horse rider .

As Jesus has nothing more to conquest with His victory over death with His Resurrection, but its the antichrist who will need to conquer the world with fake peace and is followed by the other destructive three horses of peace removal, economic disaster/famine and wars.

What good is that for God to hide it with a Seal if the 1st Seal speaks about Jesus spreading the Gospel to win people ? John has already known this since 30 AD and John would not weep so much if the 1st Seal is about Jesus spreading the Gospel. Its not a secret at all.

And some people keep claiming that the crown is the sign of victory of Christ as they failed to see that the beast of antichrist had ten crowns as written in Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And some other claim that white is the colour of holiness bla bla blah so the white horse of the 1st Seal cant be the antichrist, they failed to see that even the devil pretends to be an angel of light : 2 Cor 11:14 Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light !

Antichrist will conquer the world with Peace and this is what Paul has written about, people will say "Peace and Safety" :

1 Thes 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

The destruction of that Peace and Safety will be affected by the peace removal by the 2nd seal red horse rider.

Jesus Christ is depicted in Revelation 19 followed by millions of His saints coming to the battle of Armageddon to take over the world from the devil, antichrist and the false prophet, He will establish His millennium government and peace will prevail all over the world. There will not be any peace destruction or famine or wars anymore in His world government.

Edited July 31, 2020 by R. Hartono

[The Light]

20 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Its totally a blunder, many christians claim that the 1st seal of white horse rider is Jesus Christ.

Total nonsense that Jesus is the rider on the white horse. The rider is given the stephanos crown the leafed crown of victory. Same crown as the seal of the United Nations.

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Rev 6:1  I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” ² I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on CONQUEST.

I'd have to think that John would be able to recognize Jesus if Jesus was the rider. Maybe Jesus rides back to open the second seal.

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Because Jesus was standing there holding the scroll, how can he then be transformed as the 1st Seal's white horse rider .

 

He can't. But I'm pretty sure there are a few in this forum with great imaginations that can answer your question.

It will sound something like this:

John was viewing the future from the past. It is a Prophetic Interlude. The intervening was a past participle of the congruent nature of spiritualism. Thus the rider could be at two places at one time. He is God, is He not? And all things are possible with God.

Edited June 22, 2020 by The Light

[R. Hartono]

22 minutes ago, The Light said:

Total nonsense that Jesus is the rider on the white horse. The rider is given the stephanos crown the leafed crown of victory. Same crown as the seal of the United Nations.

I'd have to think that John would be able to recognize Jesus if Jesus was the rider. Maybe Jesus rides back to open the second seal.

He can't. But I'm pretty sure there are a few in this forum with great imaginations that can answer your question.

It will sound something like this:

John was viewing the future from the past. It is a Prophetic Interlude. The intervening was a past participle of the congruent nature of spiritualism. Thus the rider could be at two places at one time. He is God, is He not? And all things are possible with God.

Thats brilliant Bro. Like a lightning that strikes the darkness of those people with twisted understanding n they are so so many.

 

[Marilyn C]

JESUS AND HIS HOLY ANGELS.

So who comes with Jesus when He returns in great power and great glory?

When Jesus was on earth the disciples asked Him to tell them about what would happen to Israel & the nations at the end of this age. Jesus told them quite clearly about the tribulation & persecution Israel would endure but that He would come again with His mighty angels to deliver Israel & judge the nations of the world.  

 

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory.

And He will send His angels..`                            (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

 

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

 

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

 

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

 

These Holy angels are the army who come with Jesus when he brings vengeance upon the ungodly.

 

`Then I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse. And He who sat on him was called faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war....And the armies in heaven clothed in fine white linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 11 & 14)

 

This is also the description on the angels coming out of the temple in heaven. They symbolically had garments of linen, white and clean. This is to distinguish them as holy angels and not demonic angels.

 

White horses - represent glory and power.

 

 

The Bible refers to angels and saints as Holy Ones. We need to check scriptures as to which is spoken of. 

 

Translation Errors of `Holy Ones.`

Jude 14,  Deut. 33: 2,  Zech. 14: 4.

 

[Sister]

Jesus weapon is the double edged sword coming out of his mouth.

The rider on the white horse has a weapon, but it is only a bow, but with no arrow?

His word is bent, just like the bow.  He conquers with a bent word.  His teachings are not straight.

This rider only appears holy which is why he chooses a white horse.  It's made to look holy on the outside.

The rider is none other than one of Satan's angels driving the Roman church, the mother of all churches, which came up strong after John's days.

A precedent was set for Christians that man could only go to God through man, and adopt traditions and doctrines of those who appointed themselves high ranking in God's eyes, and not according to truth.  From the mother church, many churches were born out of her and the foundation of her doctrine still lives on.  All put here to distract us and prevent us from finding the true church, which is not under any building made with mans hands. 

 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

JESUS AND HIS HOLY ANGELS.

So who comes with Jesus when He returns in great power and great glory?

When Jesus was on earth the disciples asked Him to tell them about what would happen to Israel & the nations at the end of this age. Jesus told them quite clearly about the tribulation & persecution Israel would endure but that He would come again with His mighty angels to deliver Israel & judge the nations of the world.  

 

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory.

And He will send His angels..`                            (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

 

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

 

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

 

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

 

These Holy angels are the army who come with Jesus when he brings vengeance upon the ungodly.

 

`Then I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse. And He who sat on him was called faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war....And the armies in heaven clothed in fine white linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 11 & 14)

 

This is also the description on the angels coming out of the temple in heaven. They symbolically had garments of linen, white and clean. This is to distinguish them as holy angels and not demonic angels.

 

White horses - represent glory and power.

 

 

The Bible refers to angels and saints as Holy Ones. We need to check scriptures as to which is spoken of. 

 

Translation Errors of `Holy Ones.`

Jude 14,  Deut. 33: 2,  Zech. 14: 4.

 

Those angels are sent to gather His people during the rapture.

There are no cowboy angels riding horses.

Angels hv their battle in heaven when Mikhail (not Jesus) LED them to fight the army of the old dragon and banish that old dragon with its followers.

While battle on earth (Armageddon) will be decided between Jesus with His saints against antichrist with his armies of this world. Its man against man for the possession of this world.

Hope this energize our spirit.

Edited June 23, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Those angels are sent to gather His people during the rapture.

There are no cowboy angels riding horses.

Angels hv their battle in heaven when Mikhail (not Jesus) LED them to fight the army of the old dragon and banish that old dragon with its followers.

While battle on earth (Armageddon) will be decided between Jesus with His saints against antichrist with his armies of this world. Its man against man for the possession of this world.

Hope this energize our spirit.

There is NO scriptures to support that wild imaginings.

1. The white horses as I said are symbolic of power and glory. Scripture tells us that they are the mighty angels.

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

2. The Lord speaks the word and `their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,...`  (Zech. 14: 12, Rev. 19: 15) Nothing at all about a fight with His saints and the A/C and his armies. The Lord is all powerful and does not `fight` as you imagine.

 

3. God owns the world and all its fullness and everyone in it. God NEVER gave the world, His kingdom away. He is only dealing with rebellion of authority. Satan only holds sway over man`s minds, NOT the earth. (1 John 5: 19)

`The earth is the Lord and all its fullness , the world and those who dwell therein. (Ps. 24: 1)

` Heaven is My Throne and the earth is my footstool.` (Is. 66: 1)

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Scripture tells us that they are the mighty angels.

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

 

That is the final judgment of mankind which is also witnessed by angels.

^{Matt 25:31} “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³² All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³ He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

^{Luke 9 26} Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

BECAUSE ITS NOT ANGELS WHO JUDGE THE WORLD BUT THE SAINTS.

1 Cor 6 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels?

Angels shall be called to gather the saints / rapture : Matt 24 27And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven

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The Lord speaks the word and `

their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,...`  (Zech. 14: 12, Rev. 19: 15) Nothing at all about a fight with His saints and the A/C and his armies. The Lord is all powerful and does not `fight` as you imagine.

Yes indeed Lord Jesus will fight at the battle of Armageddon : 

^{Rev 19 19} Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

Youre just quoting Zech 14:12 without understanding what has caused their flesh to dissolve, its the sword from the mouth of Jesus :

^{Rev 19 21} The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

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The white horses as I said are symbolic of power and glory. Scripture tells us that they are the mighty angels

Cowboys angels riding horses ? Never in Bible history.

Angels hv their battle in heaven when Mikhail (not Jesus) LED them to fight the army of the old dragon and banish that old dragon with its followers.

While battle on earth (Armageddon) will be decided between Jesus with His saints against antichrist with his armies of this world. Its man against man for the possession of this world.

Its clearly written about this battle of Armageddon to fight Lord Jesus and His saints will be prepared :

^{Rev 16 13} Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.¹⁶ Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

Edited June 23, 2020 by R. Hartono

[The_Truth_Seeker]

On 6/23/2020 at 3:31 AM, Sister said:

 

The rider on the white horse has a weapon, but it is only a bow, but with no arrow?

 

 

Concerning Rev 6.2, this may be a problem with the English translation. I had to do some research on the word that was used for "bow" which in Greek is G5115 toxon. 

This is one of those word translations which is difficult to verify what the actual meaning is supposed to represent, so I had to do some further checking. I was comparing Job 41.28 to different translations and this is where things get interesting. Many translations have the word "arrow" but the Greek Septuagint has the word "bow".

So the question then is, at time when the Septuagint was being translated, could the Greek word "toxon" be understood as a reference to  bow and arrow? 

Maybe the the reference in the greek was understood to include a arrow, (or some other object that resembles a arrow in shape, like a dart of some kind).

So if looking from a medical and pharmaceuticals point of view, and arrow or dart shaped object could resemble something like a syringe or these Blow-Fill-Seal prefilled syringe.

If one was to look at Rev 6.2 from a medical and pharmaceutical point of view, remember that "corona" is latin for crown, taking into account the word meanings for "toxon", the descripion could very well relate to the medical and pharmaceuticals industry.

 

 

 

[Sister]

18 hours ago, The_Truth_Seeker said:

Concerning Rev 6.2, this may be a problem with the English translation. I had to do some research on the word that was used for "bow" which in Greek is G5115 toxon. 

This is one of those word translations which is difficult to verify what the actual meaning is supposed to represent, so I had to do some further checking. I was comparing Job 41.28 to different translations and this is where things get interesting. Many translations have the word "arrow" but the Greek Septuagint has the word "bow".

So the question then is, at time when the Septuagint was being translated, could the Greek word "toxon" be understood as a reference to  bow and arrow? 

Maybe the the reference in the greek was understood to include a arrow, (or some other object that resembles a arrow in shape, like a dart of some kind).

So if looking from a medical and pharmaceuticals point of view, and arrow or dart shaped object could resemble something like a syringe or these Blow-Fill-Seal prefilled syringe.

If one was to look at Rev 6.2 from a medical and pharmaceutical point of view, remember that "corona" is latin for crown, taking into account the word meanings for "toxon", the descripion could very well relate to the medical and pharmaceuticals industry.

 

 

 

The_Truth_Seeker

If anything with what I said was wrong, it wouldn't be with the KJV, but with my interpretation.

He's conquering with a bow, but I just don't see an arrow.  The bow and arrow always go together, but in this case, I don't think this rider is using the arrow, but just holding the bow.  I don't see the vision with a weapon for killing, but a weapon representing something else in which he conquers, and that could be his mouth.  But I could be wrong, and I wouldn't argue tooth and nail over this.    This is how I see the rider on the white horse.  Conquering with his mouth.  With what he's speaking he's gaining souls.  Religion for example.

In Psalms below, we can see their weapons are instruments of the mouth just for another example.

 

  Psalms 64:1   Hear my voice, O God, in my prayer: preserve my life from fear of the enemy.

  Psalms 64:2   Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:

  Psalms 64:3   Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:

  Psalms 64:4   That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.

  Psalms 64:5   They encourage themselves in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

  Psalms 64:6   They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep.

  Psalms 64:7   But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded.

  Psalms 64:8   So they shall make their own tongue to fall upon themselves: all that see them shall flee away.

  Psalms 64:9   And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing.

  Psalms 64:10   The righteous shall be glad in the LORD, and shall trust in him; and all the upright in heart shall glory.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sister