Why I do not believe evolution diminishes God

[one.opinion]

59 minutes ago, Deadworm said:

Notice how Don and David continually pontificate from ignorance without providing detailed arguments and without reading or watching the cited books and videos.  And worse, without knowing Hebrew, David disses the New Jerusalem Bible from anti-Catholic prejudice, even though that Bible is renowned for its sensitivty to Hebrew nuance.  

Most people here prefer arguing to "win", rather than arguing (in the true sense of the word) to understand anything new.

[David1701]

14 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Why are credentials important only when the credentialed individual supports your personal beliefs - and never, if they believe something different?

The reason why I mentioned Spike Psarris' work with NASA, was that evolutionists normally reject creationists as being stupid and/or ignorant.  Once it is established that a creationist is neither, then one of the evolutionists' main ad hom "arguments" is removed instantly.

[David1701]

22 hours ago, Deadworm said:

Notice how Don and David continually pontificate from ignorance without providing detailed arguments and without reading or watching the cited books and videos.  And worse, without knowing Hebrew, David disses the New Jerusalem Bible from anti-Catholic prejudice, even though that Bible is renowned for its sensitivty to Hebrew nuance.  

Interesting word, "pontificate"; perhaps the irony of its connection with Roman Catholicism has escaped you.

The New Jerusalem Bible has RC changes and cultic commentary throughout.  It is not catholic (universal) but ROMAN Catholic (cultic).

I have investigated a huge amount of information about creation/evolution; but I find that evolutionists are usually closed to the truth and there is little point in doing anything except point them to what the Bible says.

Edited July 27, 2020 by David1701
comma added

[one.opinion]

27 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The reason why I mentioned Spike Psarris' work with NASA, was that evolutionists normally reject creationists as being stupid and/or ignorant.  Once it is established that a creationist is neither, then one of the evolutionists' main ad hom "arguments" is removed instantly.

Personally, I try to avoid ad hominem attacks like these. They are unproductive, mostly incorrect, and the opposite of how my Lord has instructed me to treat my brothers and sisters.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

Personally, I try to avoid ad hominem attacks like these. They are unproductive, mostly incorrect, and the opposite of how my Lord has instructed me to treat my brothers and sisters.

That is a good attitude.

[Deadworm]

"Ken Miller Human Genome 2 -Youtube"

This video records 3 brief excerpts from lectures by Dr. Kenneth Miller that demand a reasoned response from evangelical creationists.

(1) A powerful recent genetic piece of evidence for human evolution from other primates

(2) A primer on how to talk to evangelicals about evolution

(3) An overview of how Miller and his fellow scientists refuted the evangelical doctrine of "irreducible complexity" (e. g. Michael Behe) and thus won the trial before a conservative judge that established  why evolution needs to be taught in public schools

[Guest theElect777]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:43 PM, one.opinion said:

One of the arguments against a theistic version of evolution that I read somewhat frequently is that an acceptance of evolution diminishes God. Personally, I disagree strongly with this viewpoint. I firmly believe God is omnipotent and how He chose to create does not limit how He was able to create in any way. He could have created the entire universe in 144 hours, and He could have created the entire universe instantaneously. I believe the scientific evidence suggests that He created over millions of years, rather than a few scores of hours. When I look at the complexity of living organisms, or the complexity of living populations and communities of organisms, I cannot help but be amazed by a God that is so big, yet so intricate in His creation.

With the varying degrees of isolation we are experiencing during the pandemic, a lot of people have a LOT more time on their hands than they are used to. I saw a rather elaborate Rube-Goldberg machine that a couple of people set up to pass the salt while maintaining social distancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nORRgU8sGdE). While all analogies fail at some point, I do believe this helps me explain why I disagree with the notion that evolution makes God somehow smaller. It is rather easy to pass someone a salt shaker, rather than construct an elaborate machine to do it, I believe that creation of life unfolding over billions of years is a more impressive feat than instantaneous creation. And while passing the salt was the goal in the video, God's goal throughout all His creation was to bring humanity into being. We are special! I believe we are so special that God built a process that would unfold over millennia just to bring us to the planet.

God is a creative Being. In Revelation 4:11, most references say that creation was according to God's will, but the KJV says "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." I believe God takes pleasure in creating and I believe that is something that He put into us - His most-prized creations. Although I've never really built a Rube-Goldberg machine, I loved setting up elaborate domino tumbles when I was a kid, just to watch everything occur from a single tap to one domino. I cannot help but wonder if God also takes pleasure in the same way when looking at His creation. I should also point out that scientists can analyze the patterns of life we see today and come up with very good guesses about what might have happened in the past, just as one can look at tumbled dominoes, or a table surface after a Rube-Goldberg machine has concluded and figure out what must have happened along the way.

Regardless of what you think about the rest of my argument for evolution as a tool in the hands of an almighty Creator, I hope the reader understands why I don't see evolution as any sort of limit on God's power.

 

Essentially what you're claiming, is that God allowed the process of "Natural Selection," "Inherited Genetics," "Randomness," and roughly 95% "Chance," that humans would eventually evolve from (pick a theory [amoeba/fish])?   And you feel confident that this does not at all diminish the viewpoint of "The Garden," Creation of mankind," and "The Word of God" itself?   The Book of Ephesians explains how we were "Predestined" by God before the Foundation of the Earth.   Evolution is based upon "Randomness and Chance."   Predestination and Randomness/Chance are not even remotely close to being the same in their respective definitions.   In fact, they are "Complete Opposites!"

 

I think you need to rethink this more thoroughly.

[Wesley L]

22 hours ago, one.opinion said:

It really does work, and the evidence exists. Before I really put much effort into a response, I need to know how serious you are about a discussion. Do you truly want to discuss and learn about a different viewpoint?

If you want to start talking about butterflies with changing wing colors and birds with different beak sizes and animals on the Galapagos islands. That is not evolution, but a change of shapes and colors without adding any extra information. The information which causes this to happen is already embedded within the existing DNA.

Evolution claims adding extra information into the DNA causing new functions to exist, of which I don't see any proof. See also the questions in my earlier post about functions that would be only of use when both exists at te same time. And not even mentioning multiple complex functions that needs to exist at the same time for it to function properly.

The theory of evolution is incomplete, unproven and even disproven if looking at the fossil records. Fossil records disprove the existence of inbetween animals (missing links) We find massive amounts of fossils of dinosaurs and plants (which supposedly lived long before humans) and we find massive ammounts of fossils of existing species. But we don't find any fossils of evolving kinds and the one with half evolved functions.

But even without that. I believe in God the creator. And evolution theory is in stark contrast with the attributes of God. That is the main reason I reject this theory as truth.

[one.opinion]

20 minutes ago, Wesley L said:

If you want to start talking about

I really need an answer to my question to see if it is worth investing our time. Do you have any interest in learning more about biology and evolution than you already know?

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, theElect777 said:

Essentially what you're claiming, is that God allowed the process of "Natural Selection," "Inherited Genetics," "Randomness," and roughly 95% "Chance," that humans would eventually evolve from (pick a theory [amoeba/fish])?

No, that isn't what I claim at all. You have made assumptions about what I claim that are just flat wrong. I believe that God, in his surpassing wisdom and sovereignty, designed the exact outcomes He wanted to unfold over a vast period of time. Dr. Michael Behe (of the Discovery Institute) has a similar concept that God set all existence into motion at the Big Bang, like an elaborate billiards shot.

Quote

Dr. Behe, for example, said he could imagine that, like an elaborate billiards shot, the design was set up when the Big Bang occurred 13.6 billion years ago. "It could have all been programmed into the universe as far as I'm concerned," he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/22/us/in-explaining-lifes-complexity-darwinists-and-doubters-clash.html?auth=login-facebook

2 hours ago, theElect777 said:

And you feel confident that this does not at all diminish the viewpoint of "The Garden," Creation of mankind," and "The Word of God" itself?

God carrying out His creation process over billions of years does NOT require that God let everything happen "by chance". What may look like chance to you and I could certainly be the workings of His direct intent. When we consider the true impact of omnipotence and omniscience, God could certainly have set up that "perfect billiards shot" to bring about exactly what we see today.