The powerlessness of Grace when mixed with the Law

[Blood Bought 1953]

17 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

In regards to the first question, I believe God prefers us to do what he commands us to do which is keep the Sabbath day. You indicate that obeying God's commandments is a great thing, yet... please be honest here, you probably try to keep all of them without excuse and justification except for the 4th one, then you have to justify why you change that one.  The biggest mistake you make is the belief that you can't have the supremacy of our Savior Jesus and keep the commandments, in this you are mistaken. Can I recommend that you read Revelation 22:14, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17 and all of I John. It gives a different perspective.  I do want to thank you for a thoughtful response in your last post. Always more enjoyable without anger. 

If anything, I post matter-Of-factly.......no anger.....it’s mainly the nature of this form of communication That is  to blame.....one can say the sweetest things on here,  or on e- mail or many other applications and come off as cross or stern....

As far as the Law is concerned, I do not obsess over it.......Obsession about the Law is a sin in itself......it is a big sign of Unbelief. God said our sins are “ as far removed as the East is from the West”.....If one RESTS in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 , God has PROMISED to “ Remember Our Sins NO MORE.”  FAITH is BELIEVING the Promises Of God.If one does not Believe and therefore ACT on the Promises Of God, you do not have the Faith that God is looking for .If you do not Believe the Promise That God has sent your sins into oblivion because of the FINISHED work of the Cross— you got much bigger problems than worrying about  what day to keep for Worship

Paul said the Law is great —- if you know how to use it! How did he say to use the Law? We are to be aware of it.....realize you can’t keep it.....close your mouth about it.....come to the end of yourself and put your Faith in the Gospel instead of putting you faith in your ability to keep a set of laws that was never “ intended” to be kept.Peter said that neither he nor his ancestors could keep it.Paul said that it was “ an impossible system”...... given to lead you the Savior That “ DID” keep it.

The Law has performed its intended purpose in my life—- it showed me I could not keep it and I shut my mouth “ trying” to keep it , and I “repented towards God ( turned to Him) with Faith in  Jesus Christ” That got me saved.God put His Spirit in me and I live by that Holy Spirit .That Spirit That put that “ weak and useless” Law into the rear-view mirror ......cast aside, because God , through Paul , revealed the TRUE means to live a life pleasing to God.....Something NOBODY knew until God revealed His Secret through Paul. That great Secret was this— “CHRIST IN US.” That is your” Hope Of Glory”—- NOT trying to follow a “ beggarly” system of Laws that was never meant to save anyone.....

[steve morrow]

A FALSE WITNESS

 

PROVERBS 12:17  he that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness -- but a false witness deceit

PROVERBS 19:5  a false witness shall not be unpunished and he that speaketh lies shall not escape  

PROVERBS 14:15  a faithful witness will not lie -- but a false witness will utter lies 

ECCLESIASTES 8:11  because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil

 

ROMANS 2:5  but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of GOD  --2:6--  WHO  WILL  RENDER  TO  EVERY  MAN  ACCORDING  TO  HIS  DEEDS  --2:7-- to them who by --PATIENT  CONTINUANCE-- in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality --ETERNAL  LIFE-- 

--2:8-- BUT  UNTO  THEM  THAT  ARE  CONTENTIOUS -- AND DO NOT OBEY THE TRUTH -- BUT  OBEY  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS  ---INDIGNATION AND WRATH---

--2:9-- tribulation and anguish --UPON  EVERY  SOUL  OF  MAN-- that doeth evil of the jew first and also of the gentile --2:10-- but glory honor and peace --TO  EVERY  MAN  THAT  WORKETH  GOOD-- to the jew first and also to the gentile 

--2:11-- FOR  THERE  IS  NO  RESPECT  OF  PERSONS  WITH  GOD

 

COLOSSIANS 1:20 and having made peace through the blood of HIS cross BY  HIM to reconcile all things unto himself BY  HIM I say whether they be things in earth or things in heaven  --1:21-- and you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works yet now hath HE reconciled --1:22--in the body of HIS flesh through death to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in HIS sight 

--1:23-- IF  YOU  CONTINUE  IN  THE  FAITH  GROUNDED  AND  SETTLED--  and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you have heard and which was preached unto every creature which is under heaven whereof I paul am made a minister 

ROMANS 10:17  SO  THEN  FAITH  COMETH  BY  HEARING  AND  HEARING  BY  THE  WORD  OF  GOD

1 PETER 1:25  BUT  THE  WORD  OF  THE  LORD  ENDURETH  FOREVER  AND  THIS  IS  THE  WORD  WHICH  BY  THE  GOSPEL  IS  PREACHED  UNTO  YOU

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  AND  HIS  BRETHREN

 

[Tigger56]

On 2/22/2020 at 12:41 PM, JustPassingThru said:

@Tigger56   

 

No problem brother, …my work and my life often interfere with my computer time.

This is going to be long, but I have answered every question and verse you have quoted.

Yes the Bible is “divided” into different portions, …there is the Pentateuch, History, Wisdom, Major and Minor Prophets, Gospels and Acts, Letters to the Church and Revelation. Just because the Books of our Bible are “assembled” in this fashion/order doesn’t mean It’s any “less” of the Word of God, the “Books” are all “inspired” by God, …literally God breathed 2 Tim 3:16.

Col 2:16, …do NOT judge, …but this Forum is full of Sabbath “keepers” that “judge” those who go to Church on Sunday.  

1 Cor 16:8, …surely you know Pentecost falls on a Sunday? 

1 Cor 5:8, …talks about “feasts,” Passover was NOT on a Saturday. 

Heb 4:4, …speaks of God resting on the seventh day, NOT man or His church. 

1 John 5:2, 5:3, 2:3, 3:24, must be understood and taken in their “correct” context by these verses:

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.  1 John 2:7-8

 What is the NEW COMMANDMENT that they had heard from the “beginning” of their time spent with Jesus?

 A new commandment I (Jesus) give unto you, …That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13 :34

 Question is? do you believe what Jesus “said” to them about “HIS” …NEW COMMANDMENT of LOVE…

 Rev 14:12, …is speaking about the Tribulation “saints,” NOT the Church. 

 22:14, …Jesus is talking about ALL who will be “in” Heaven, Old Testament Saints that kept the Law for centuries before Moses the Lawgiver, the Church Age saints who “kept” the “new” commandment of LOVE that Jesus gave them, and the Trib saints that “kept” the “new” Law which Jesus had given to His Church. 

 Once again, you have not given verses, "in" their correct Scriptural context, “proof” that the Church is “required” to keep the seventh day Sabbath. 

 As for not being able to prove from Scripture the Church assembled on Sunday,

 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7

 Is not the first day of the week Sunday? …the Holy Spirit tells us they assembled for “church to take Communion and Paul taught a Bible Study, …no?

 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Cor 16:2

 The Corinthian Church was following the example that Paul had used in Troas, He had arrived there seven days earlier, …that means he was there on the Sabbath, the Church in Troas didn’t assemble on the Sabbath, they met on the first day of the week, that would have been 6:00 PM Saturday night until 6:00 PM Sunday night!

We know it was at night because there were many lights, oil lamps lit which create a lot of heat, Eutychus was probably sitting in the open window to try and “escape” the heat, but fell asleep and fell to his death around midnight, Paul “fell” on him and brought him back to life which would of made quite an commotion in the Church, …since Paul had their attention, to say the least (evidently Paul left Troas the first time he visited them shortly after seeing the man in Macedonia calling him in a vision), …he taught all night, departing for Assos in the morning on foot, rather than on a ship with Luke and the others in the group.

There you go dear brother, no Scriptural proof the Church was to assemble on the Sabbath and Scriptural proof, according to Jesus Matt18:16, …by the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established.

 The “two” mouths are the Holy Spirit repeating John 14:26 what He heard Jesus say, …that means ”JESUS”, not some man or woman “established” His Church meeting on Sunday, …on 8^th Day, the DAY of His Resurrection, …the DAY of NEW beginnings!

But dear brother, you go ahead and assemble on the Sabbath, …please, …just stop “judging” us and trying to “teach” us Sunday Worshipers we are wrong when the Scriptures prove us right.

Lord bless

Yes your response is long but I have determined that you apparently know no other way.?  I agree man had divided the Bible into parts. In Col. 2:6, think about when this was written and to whom. Most of the Gentiles at the time did not keep the Sabbath and worshipped many other gods, then you had the Pharasees wanting to impose a lot of traditions that made the Sabbath a burden. Paul isn't telling them not to judge Sunday keepers, he is telling them not to let other judge them in the keeping of the Sabbath day. You state Sabbath keepers judge... interesting, Do you not judge Sabbath keepers to be wrong in not recognizing Sunday worship?  Do you not judge or deem yourself to be right? I do as well, but I do not judge to condemn and hopefully you don't either. I don't have to judge in that manner. If there is a feeling of being judged perhaps it is simply the word of God bothering you?  

You are correct Pentecost does fall on Sunday. Pentecost is a holy day of God that comes once a year and should be kept. It doesn't make Sunday special and doesn't mean Sunday should be kept all year round, week after week. In regards to I Cor. 5, didn't say Passover was always on the Sabbath day, it varies year to year. But Paul is indeed speaking of Passover and the days of unleavened bread. In Hebrews 4:4, yes God rested, but God didn't need rest, He is all power and spirit. But he did set the example for all of us to follow. Why do you fight against the Sabbath so vehemently? Do you do the same with the rest of the commandments?  I looked on line... the Sabbath is said to be listed in the Old Testament 2,392 times, in the New Testament 489 times. Yet of all words mentioned in the Bible most main stream Christians want to side with the Catholic Church and ignore all those scriptures and embrace Sunday which is never mentioned (word never used), first day of week is mentioned as it carried no importance. But will get to my response to your scriptures in a moment.

Next you mentioned I John. The new commandment from Jesus emphasized love, But he never said the new commandment did away with all of the old commandments. The 10 commandments exemplify the love of God and the love of neighbor. Which of the 10 do you think was a mistake by God? Which should be ignored and abolished?  I suspect you only can think of one.... the 4th.

Rev. 14:12,  ah.... a whole new subject. I believe the tribulation saints are the church. and Rev 22:14 is the same group of believers. You really have no basis for your interpretation other than it is your interpretation. 

Now for the first day of the week, shame they didn't think it required a name.... Acts 20:7 (I was surprised you went to Acts, in your previous post I thought Acts was taboo in this discussion). "upon the first day of the week"  Upon..... when was that? was it a morning service.... doubt it. More likely since keeping the Sabbath was the manner of Paul that he gathered with fellow believers to have supper or dinner (depends on what part of country). He was eating with them and spoke to them prior to him departing. It is likely Saturday night, sundown begins a new day. He ate with them and spoke to them and then planned to travel on sunday as it was a day of no significant meaning.   Oh where, oh where does God make Sunday holy?  Don't think you will find it but I can find the Sabbath in the Bible and that is the undeniable truth.  

I Cor. 16:2 - Upon the first day, lay up store.... this isn't the "passing of the plate" at services. It was gathering, uh work. So okay to do it on the first day of the week as it was of no particular significance.

So dear brother keep Sunday as you feel, but please stop judging us that choose to follow the scriptures.  Only God can make a day holy and that really is the crux of the matter. What day did God set aside and make holy for all of mankind?  come on you know the answer......

[Tigger56]

On 2/23/2020 at 12:06 AM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Paul makes it clear that fussing and fretting over Certain Days and Sabbaths are for “ weak” Believers.....If you choose to be a “ Weak Christian”—- have at it! Just don’t attempt to make “ me” one! God knows your heart, and He knows if you are doing it from a sincere attempt to please Him, He is cool with it.

If you go a step further and say that one must obey the Sabbath Law to be Saved, we got a real problem.The Blood Of Jesus is the ONLY thing that saves anybody.The Gospel Of Grace says that if you REST in the Promise Of God that says if you Simply Believe that Jesus died for your Sins and rose from the dead , you WILL be saved.....if you add ANYTHING to that Gospel Of PURE GRACE, you are NOT RESTING in it.Hebrews 3 declares if you Do not REST in the Gospel ( 1Cor15:1-4) you are in a state of DISOBEDIENCE and UNBELIEF .Serious accusations, indeed! Adding to the Gospel Of Grace is not a thing to be taken lightly—- even if sounds good.Setting aside a day to rest from working and dedicating that day as a day to focus on the things of God is a great idea— do it and enjoy it if it makes you feel good.....just don’t try to force your convictions on us Christians who are “ strong”in the Faith who understand that RESTING in the FINISHED WORK of the Cross is what any kind of “ Sabbathing” has been pointing to all along. Jesus Himself is the True Sabbath.....Don’t find yourself worshipping the shadow instead of the One who cast the shadow....

One other thing to consider —- If you attempt to single out one law that must be kept to get you Saved or keep you  Saved, you will be held accountable to keep ALL the Law......James made no exception for the Sabbath Law.....God Bless.....

 

 

Actually  you misquote Paul and He never shows the keeping of God's word is for those who are weak. In obedience that is strength. The concept of do as one pleases is the way of the world not of God.  I don't say we must obey the Sabbath, God does and I do it because of that. I didn't pick the day, He did. So why do you ignore it. Only through Jesus is salvation, but that doesn't mean you then ignore the words that Jesus taught or ignore the example he set. He kept the Sabbath, he kept the holy days. Jesus never sinned, sin is the transgression of the law. What is the law if not the commands of God including good ole number 4. 

Force?  I'm not forcing anything. I am quoting scripture. I do believe in them. So if I share my convictions as you definitely share yours.... how am I trying to force?  If any force is intended, I would think when you tell people they are going to hell unless they accept what you are telling them sounds more like force. Also one must get amused by your use of capitalized letters in your responses. ?

I am simply quoting scripture.  Please tell me is this scriptural or not?  Gen. 2:1-3.  Now, where does God ever say that about Sunday?  So you can see why I will follow the observance of God's commandments. God is God, he should be obeyed in love and worship, not reasoned around.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tigger56
misspelled word

[Tigger56]

38 minutes ago, Betha said:

Absolutely AGREE with every word you have written !!!  They can not understand JESUS and for the same reason can not understand us. UNbelief is a very serious SIN.

Thanks! Always nice to have someone in agreement. I never feel outnumbered as I am simply quoting the scriptures as written, but still nice to have someone show support of words written. ?

[Blood Bought 1953]

3 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

Actually  you misquote Paul and He never shows the keeping of God's word is for those who are weak. In obedience that is strength. The concept of do as one pleases is the way of the world not of God.  I don't say we must obey the Sabbath, God does and I do it because of that. I didn't pick the day, He did. So why do you ignore it. Only through Jesus is salvation, but that doesn't mean you then ignore the words that Jesus taught or ignore the example he set. He kept the Sabbath, he kept the holy days. Jesus never sinned, sin is the transgression of the law. What is the law if not the commands of God including good ole number 4. 

Force?  I'm not forcing anything. I am quoting scripture. I do believe in them. So if I share my convictions as you definitely share yours.... how am I trying to force?  If any force is intended, I would think when you tell people they are going to hell unless they accept what you are telling them sounds more like force. Also one must get amused by your use of capitalized letters in your responses. ?

I am simply quoting scripture.  Please tell me is this scriptural or not?  Gen. 2:1-3.  Now, where does God ever say that about Sunday?  So you can see why I will follow the observance of God's commandments. God is God, he should be obeyed in love and worship, not reasoned around.

 

 

3 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

Actually  you misquote Paul and He never shows the keeping of God's word is for those who are weak. In obedience that is strength. The concept of do as one pleases is the way of the world not of God.  I don't say we must obey the Sabbath, God does and I do it because of that. I didn't pick the day, He did. So why do you ignore it. Only through Jesus is salvation, but that doesn't mean you then ignore the words that Jesus taught or ignore the example he set. He kept the Sabbath, he kept the holy days. Jesus never sinned, sin is the transgression of the law. What is the law if not the commands of God including good ole number 4. 

Force?  I'm not forcing anything. I am quoting scripture. I do believe in them. So if I share my convictions as you definitely share yours.... how am I trying to force?  If any force is intended, I would think when you tell people they are going to hell unless they accept what you are telling them sounds more like force. Also one must get amused by your use of capitalized letters in your responses. ?

I am simply quoting scripture.  Please tell me is this scriptural or not?  Gen. 2:1-3.  Now, where does God ever say that about Sunday?  So you can see why I will follow the observance of God's commandments. God is God, he should be obeyed in love and worship, not reasoned around.

 

 

First off, I am DELIGHTED that you are “ AMUSED” by my use of “ capitalized letters” in my post! I am NOTHING if I am not a “ people pleaser !” I will PROMISE to fall back on that  source of  your amusement as often as I CAN.......LOL......

Just for the record.....my beliefs on who is going to Hell and who ain’t are quite simple......they are also BIBLICAL......If one is a Believer , That person goes to Heaven. If one is NOT a Believer, they go to Hell.Jesus said that if we will acknowledge Him before men, He will acknowledge US before His  Father, so it doesn’t seem to take all that much to be saved.

As far as the Sabbath Day debate is concerned......BOTH sides have been argued.....people can believe as they choose.....that is all that I care about ....

Please give me a YES or NO answer to the following question.....I attach little importance to the Sabbath Day , as I make EVeRY day the Sabbath........Is this a Salvation Issue?  Will I go to Hell if I do not observe the Sabbath as YOU do? Please.....yes or no, or do not bother to answer.....To me it has NOTHING to do with Salvation.....

On a SIDE note....I hope my use of CAPITAL LETTERS has brought happiness and JOY to your DAY.....life is so full of PROBLEMS, isn’t it? I will make it my PURPOSE in life to keep you SMILING.......Could you please send some of those CAPITAL letters MY way? I am in need of some UP-LIFTING.......

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Blood Bought 1953

[Tigger56]

2 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

 

First off, I am DELIGHTED that you are “ AMUSED” by my use of “ capitalized letters” in my post! I am NOTHING if I am not a “ people pleaser !” I will PROMISE to fall back on that  source of  your amusement as often as I CAN.......LOL......

Just for the record.....my beliefs on who is going to Hell and who ain’t are quite simple......they are also BIBLICAL......If one is a Believer , That person goes to Heaven. If one is NOT a Believer, they go to Hell.Jesus said that if we will acknowledge Him before men, He will acknowledge US before His  Father, so it doesn’t seem to take all that much to be saved.

As far as the Sabbath Day debate is concerned......BOTH sides have been argued.....people can believe as they choose.....that is all that I care about ....

Please give me a YES or NO answer to the following question.....I attach little importance to the Sabbath Day , as I make EVeRY day the Sabbath........Is this a Salvation Issue?  Will I go to Hell if I do not observe the Sabbath as YOU do? Please.....yes or no, or do not bother to answer.....To me it has NOTHING to do with Salvation.....

On a SIDE note....I hope my use of CAPITAL LETTERS has brought happiness and JOY to your DAY.....life is so full of PROBLEMS, isn’t it? I will make it my PURPOSE in life to keep you SMILING.......Could you please send some of those CAPITAL letters MY way? I am in need of some UP-LIFTING.......

 

Sorry, no capitalized words but I got a kick out of yours and your response.????

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tigger56

[Blood Bought 1953]

7 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

Sorry, no capitalized words but I got a kick out of yours and your response.????

 

I was hoping you would answer my YES or NO question.....I do not obey the Fourth Commandment ( you don't either, but we can have that debate later ) .....Am I damned?

Here are some Capitalized Letters , for your viewing pleasure—— THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG.....I live to please.....lol......oops,  I meant LOL.....

 

[Tigger56]

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I was hoping you would answer my YES or NO question.....I do not obey the Fourth Commandment ( you don't either, but we can have that debate later ) .....Am I damned?

Here are some Capitalized Letters , for your viewing pleasure—— THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG.....I live to please.....lol......oops,  I meant LOL.....

 

Thanks for the sentence in capitols.... I guess. I would have preferred a tongue twister though. Know any good ones? That might make a new thread.

Anyway to the question you asked in your post previous to this one. I am copying it to this response:  Here it is:

Please give me a YES or NO answer to the following question.....I attach little importance to the Sabbath Day , as I make EVeRY day the Sabbath........Is this a Salvation Issue?  Will I go to Hell if I do not observe the Sabbath as YOU do? Please.....yes or no, or do not bother to answer.....To me it has NOTHING to do with Salvation.....

Not an yes or no question so there can't be a yes or no answer. I know there are many who do not keep the Sabbath nor do they understand its importance. I truly believe eyes have not yet been opened to this truth. I am not God and do not open eyes or hearts I only can quote the truth, declare truth and stand for truth. It is the Lord that opens the eyes, ears, and heart. I have known good Christian people that have followed the Lord without understanding the Sabbath or Holy Days and there isn't a doubt in my mind that they will stand upon the crystal sea in heaven. 

I also will never attempt to limit the mercy of God, thus you will find that I do not swiftly condemn people to hell or damnation and I am not quick to judge. I believe the Sabbath should be observed as commanded, you do not, but I believe you are sincere in your belief as am I. It is clear that at this time we will not agree but hopefully the Lord will open your eyes at a later time. Thus, my answer is no. I do not believe your inability to recognize the Sabbath day as being holy will condemn you.  I believe it is willful rebellion and disobedience that the Lord will condemn. That does not appear to be you or others in this forum. I believe those in this forum truly love the Lord and attempt to follow him the best they know how.  I do not believe that Sabbath keepers have the market on salvation. I have known Sabbath keepers that truly lacked love as have Sunday keepers. What day we keep should be based upon our understanding and upon our desire to please the Lord. I do believe the failure to observe the Sabbath day as holy is a sin, but it is a sin of ignorance for many at this time. But I believe many eyes will be opened before the return of our Lord.

 I truly believe that you believe you are right. I also believe you love the Lord. I don't believe that your love flows as easily to others but that is just my impression from many of your posts.

Sorry, not a complete answer and it is sometimes difficult to express all that I feel and believe but hopefully it answered your question and please pardon me of my lack of brevity and eloquence.