Days of great tribulation

[iamlamad]

Jesus said that days of great tribulation would begin after the abomination. This is good information, but many people disagree on where in Revelation the abomination event will take place. Pre-wrathers insist the days of tribulation are before the 6th seal. They are in error. We are going to examine where in Revelation those days of great tribulation will come.

Some people call the last half of the week, "great tribulation." I don't think God ever put that title on the last half of the week. It is therefore in error. God is going to shorten the days of great tribulation but the week will continue on to its 1260 day fulfillment.

Jesus said that when those in Judea SEE the abomination event, they are to flee  - instantly! There will be no time to get a coat or hat or food. Where then do we find the fleeing begin? It is in 12:6. We can then pinpoint the timing of verse 12:6 to a second or two after the abomination. We must account for some reaction time.  If we back up verse by verse from 12:6 looking for a major event such as a trumpet judgment, we come to the 7th trumpet. I am convinced that 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and declares he is God - the God of the Jews.

We have now delineated where the abomination is in Revelation. If we read down in chapter 12, we see that the Dragon will go first after those who have fled, and in failing there will begin to go after the remnant of the seed of the woman, Israel, who love Jesus. This would be the remnant of the church: only a remnant because the rapture took out the main load before the 7th seal started the week.

The devil or Dragon has to use people to do his work. To go after anyone he will need people. I think it is clear that the Dragon will possess the man of sin who will then become the Beast. John sees the Beast rise up in chapter 13. the Beast will have armies, so now the Dragon will have people to do is bidding. 

Jesus said that those days of GT (great tribulation) will be worse than any other time on earth, past, present or future. What is it that will make these days so bad? John tells us in Rev. 13: the Beast and False Prophet will erect an image and force all to bow down and worship this image. He will repeat what Nebuchadnezzar did. Those that refuse to bow will lose their head. Next, these two Beasts will create a mark. NO one will be able to buy or sell without the mark. 

While this is going on, the Two Witnesses will stop the rain. Remember that one of the trumpet judgments turned 1/3 of all fresh water into blood. Another trumpet judgment I believe will be Nuclear war, and much of the fresh water will be radiated and undrinkable. In other words, it is highly likely that water will become the most precious commodity. Fresh drinking water will only be in stores, and to get it, one must have the Mark. 

God is going to warn every human before the mark is enforced that to take the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. Every human is going to know this. Therefore GREAT PRESSURE is going to be put on people to take the mark. Thirst can be a very powerful motivator. 

Where then in Revelation will be those days of GT that Jesus spoke of that will be worse than any other time in history? Certainly those days must be AFTER God sends His warning, found in Rev. 14. In fact, John shows us the first beheaded people BEGIN to show up in heaven in chapter 15. Therefore, scripturally, the days of GT will not begin until AFTER chapter 14 in Revelation. 

No one know how long into the second half of the week this will be, but my guess is, not far. It will take some time to erect an image and some time to create and enforce the mark. No one knows if this will be world wide. I suspect it will be. It is written that the Beast deceives the whole world. it is written that Satan extends his authority to the whole word.  God will wait until the wrath of Satan has reached its peak, in the beheading of all those who refuse to bow and refuse the mark. 

Then God will begin to pour out the vials of His wrath to SHORTEN those days of GT. One the vials are poured out, no one is going to be out hunting down anyone. The armies of the Beast will be sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues in pain.  Darkness will cover the earth.  Day after day of Darkness while everyone is scared spit-less of what is coming next.  Finally the 1260th day will come and the 7th vial will be poured out, ending the 70th week. I believe it will be at this 7th trumpet that God will raise the Old Testament saints - including those before the flood. This is going to cause the world's worst earthquake ever, as seen at the 7th vial. The cities of the nations will fall. 

The days of GT will have ended, but Jesus remains in heaven. The events of Rev. 17 & 18 take place, the marriage and supper will take place, and finally Jesus will descend to earth with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. The 42 months of authority for the Beast is up. Jesus will capture both the Beast and the False Prophet and cast them into the lake of fire. 

[Shilohsfoal]

 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

Let us understand,it is not a man who places the abomination which causes desolation.Scripture plainly states the armed forces places the abomination which causes desolation.In our age militaries do not kills pigs to cause desolation,nor do they use statues.Militaries do not claim to be God to cause desolation.A military might have any number of weapons to cause desolation .

The one object which comes to mind is a nuclear weapon.

An explosion from even a small nuke causes desolation .It also causes such plagues as those found to inflict the nations who have attacked Jerusalem .

https://biblehub.com/kjv/zechariah/14-12.htm

A nuclear explosion would cause all in Judea to flee into the dens of the mountains.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/6-15.htm

There are more than one million such dens in Israel .Makes one believe they expect to someday need them.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2017/aug/14/israel-bomb-shelters-adam-reynolds-photography

Also i would like to point out that God has given us information to allow us to know the exact day this abomination which causes desolation and great tribulation will be placed by the armed forces.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-11.htm

[Shilohsfoal]

Ps,I dont know if youve ever watched a video of a nuclear explosion but within the mushroom cloud appears to be a body of fire,like a lake.

If im,not mistaken the beast and the false prophet are said to be in jerusalem when this abomination which causes desolation is placed.Just food for tbought.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:28 PM, Da Puppers said:

Verse list:    
Joe 2:1-2 KJV    Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF  THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Joel says that the DOTL is this unparalleled time in all of human history.   If you believe that the 6th seal brings the DOTL and/or the wrath of God,  then you have got things out of order.   Jesus said that the AoD would be prior to the G.T.  You have the split second timing of the 7th trumpet (a la the AoD)  taking place AFTER the opening of the 6th seal.   And you have stated (in no uncertain terms)  that the 6th seal is opened at the beginning of the 70th week and the 7th trumpet sounds at the exact midpoint of the week.  What say you to these things? 

Be Blessed, 

The PuP 

I say that I go by what is written. In my bible the 6th seal comes before ANY trumpet judgment.  This is an absolute: the trumpet judgments are what is written INSIDE the book - and the book cannot be opened (unrolled) until all 7 seals are opened first. Make no mistake then: the Day of the Lord most certainly will begin before any trumpet judgments. Notice what John wrote at the 6th seal:

 

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

"Day of His wrath / Day of the Lord" is the same thing.  The DAY will start a moment after the rapture. That is why Paul mentioned "the day" just three verses after his classical rapture verse of 1 thes. 4:17. 

Did you notice that John wrote of the cosmic signs in the sun and moon as he wrote of the 6th seal? 

My question then to you is, WHY don't you believe what is written? 

I said that the 7th trumpet will sound at the moment of the abomination. We see those in Judea starting to flee right after the 7th trumpet (12:6) so that is exactly what Jesus said. AGain my question to you is, why don't you believe what is written? It is the 7th seal that starts the week, not the 6th. The 6th seal starts THE DAY, and the 7th starts the 70th week. However, if anyone argued that both these great events start at the 7th seal, I would not argue. 

I said the days of GT would come after chapter 14. In Revelation certainly chapter 14 comes after chapters 6 and 11. Even after chapter 14. John put these things in perfect order. Again my question to you is, why don't you believe John?

[iamlamad]

23 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

Let us understand,it is not a man who places the abomination which causes desolation.Scripture plainly states the armed forces places the abomination which causes desolation.In our age militaries do not kills pigs to cause desolation,nor do they use statues.Militaries do not claim to be God to cause desolation.A military might have any number of weapons to cause desolation .

The one object which comes to mind is a nuclear weapon.

An explosion from even a small nuke causes desolation .It also causes such plagues as those found to inflict the nations who have attacked Jerusalem .

https://biblehub.com/kjv/zechariah/14-12.htm

A nuclear explosion would cause all in Judea to flee into the dens of the mountains.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/6-15.htm

There are more than one million such dens in Israel .Makes one believe they expect to someday need them.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2017/aug/14/israel-bomb-shelters-adam-reynolds-photography

Also i would like to point out that God has given us information to allow us to know the exact day this abomination which causes desolation and great tribulation will be placed by the armed forces.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/12-11.htm

Does this compare with what Antiochus Epiphanes did to cause an abomination?

[Revelation Man]

On 6/8/2019 at 8:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Jesus said that days of great tribulation would begin after the abomination. This is good information, but many people disagree on where in Revelation the abomination event will take place. Pre-wrathers insist the days of tribulation are before the 6th seal. They are in error. We are going to examine where in Revelation those days of great tribulation will come.

Some people call the last half of the week, "great tribulation." I don't think God ever put that title on the last half of the week. It is therefore in error. God is going to shorten the days of great tribulation but the week will continue on to its 1260 day fulfillment.

For starters. God SHORTENS NOTHING He has decreed the Days of Trouble as being 1260 days by my take, or half of the 70th week. Jesus stated those days will be shortened, which only means Jesus/God has predetermined the number of days BEFORE they made their original plans, they are all knowing, they don't have to change their plans !! This drives me batty that people go down this rabbit hole. Jesus' 2nd Coming will SHORTEN the Days of Troubles to 1260 days, IF Jesus decided to return 3 or 4 years later, no man/men would be left on earth. He is not going to SHORTEN His plan. His PLAN is going to shorten the TROUBLES.

By not understanding the timing of the Seals you have no shot brother at getting the timing of the Abomination of Desolation correct in juxtaposition to the book of Revelation {BoR}. The first Six Seals are all opened instantaneously one after the other, the first four seals are the Anti-Christ and his 42 months of terror on mankind, the 5th seal shows the barbaric results of those 42 months on the Faithful, and the Sixth Seal is God's Supernatural Announcement that Judgment is on the way, all Six Seals are opened at once basically, because the First 5 are showing what the reign of the Anti-Christ will bring forth, the Sixth Seal thus is opened at on the 1260, just like the other 5 are opened on the 1260, when the Children of Israel are DEFEATED/Conquered or lose their Power. 

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So from the time the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be a time, times and half and Rev. 12 says this time, times and half once like that and once via the number 1260, so we know it is 1260 days from the time Israel/Jerusalem is conquered until the Second Coming of Jesus ends all these things/wonders. 

On 6/8/2019 at 8:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Jesus said that when those in Judea SEE the abomination event, they are to flee  - instantly! There will be no time to get a coat or hat or food. Where then do we find the fleeing begin? It is in 12:6. We can then pinpoint the timing of verse 12:6 to a second or two after the abomination. We must account for some reaction time.  If we back up verse by verse from 12:6 looking for a major event such as a trumpet judgment, we come to the 7th trumpet. I am convinced that 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and declares he is God - the God of the Jews.

 The Fleeing begins 30 days before the First Seal is opened, the Abomination of Desolation is a SIGN to the Jews who have Repented to Flee Judea, because the Beast will Conquer Jerusalem in 30 days. Thus you have 30 days to make it to the Petra/Bozrah area of protection before the Anti-Christ is RELEASED by my {God's} First Seal. It always bugged me to think God would allow the Anti-Christ to Conquer Jerusalem, then tell them to Flee, God's planing is much better than ours of course, and thus why wait until Jerusalem/Jews are Conquered to give a sign. That is when I saw in Daniel 12 it was us humans misreading the timing of the signs, God's plan was perfect, it gave the Jews who REPENTED, thus believed Jesus' words/warning, 30 days to Flee Judea.

Just like the 1260 days is a set number of days from the day the Jews are Conquered until the Second Coming ends these wonders, verse 11 says the same thing about the AoD, but Jesus {Man in Linen} says it will be 1290 days until all these wonders cease {Second Coming}, we know this because in verse 8 Daniel asks when will these things end ? Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So if the Daily is taken away 30 Days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, and the Abomination is placed in the Temple at the same time, who allows this ? Well the High Priest {False Prophet} does, hes incensed that 1/3 of the Jews have accepted Jesus Christ {like Malachi 4:5 says will happen BEFORE the DOTL/Midway point} and thus he stops the Worshiping of Jesus in the Temple of God, REMEMBER, Daniel sees the Daily as a PRAYER unto God, an Oblation or Tribute unto God, if a Meat Sacrifice can be offered that's all good, but the tribute or acknowledgment of God is the main thing to God, He desires obedience OVER sacrifice. Well Daniel is just giving us what Gabriel is relaying unto him, the DAILY that will be taken away is/was a Sacrifice, it will be the False Prophet barring the worshipping of Jesus Christ in the Temple of God !! Amen, if the Jews have repented, they will be serving Jesus Christ, at least 1/3 will, the 2/3 who refuse are probably atheistic anyway, worldly people or some intrinsic  {in the Law} Jews like the False Prophet. 

Dan. 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

 

We know the False Prophet places the Image of the Beast in the Temple of God. 

Rev. 13:13 And he {False Prophet} doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The False Prophet defiles the Temple, by stopping the worship of Jesus and by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple. The False Prophet is like unto Jason who under Antiochus Epiphanes tried to get the Jews to Hellenize themselves or become like unto the Greeks/THE WORLD in other words.

So the Jews REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord {First Seal is opened}, and thus it matches Malachi 4:5 that says Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and TERRIBLE Day of the Lord !! Thus the 1335 is the Two-witnesses, a BLESSING, Amen. It happens 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

On 6/8/2019 at 8:14 PM, iamlamad said:

Quote

Jesus said that days of great tribulation would begin after the abomination. This is good information, but many people disagree on where in Revelation the abomination event will take place. Pre-wrathers insist the days of tribulation are before the 6th seal. They are in error. We are going to examine where in Revelation those days of great tribulation will come.

Hi Iamlamad,

I must admit that I have never seen anyone so confused about Revelation. The pre-wrathers are correct, the Tribulation is before the 6th seal and I believe in a pretrib rapture.

 

Quote

We have now delineated where the abomination is in Revelation.

It seems you don't understand the order of Revelation.

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Does this compare with what Antiochus Epiphanes did to cause an abomination?

What Antiochus did does not cause desolation nor does it cause great tribulation.

When the king of the north command his armed forces to place the abomination that causes desolation,it will be to kill many people.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

The prophecy has nothing whatsoever to do with Antiochus and porky pig.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

What Antiochus did does not cause desolation nor does it cause great tribulation.

When the king of the north command his armed forces to place the abomination that causes desolation,it will be to kill many people.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

The prophecy has nothing whatsoever to do with Antiochus and porky pig.

Have you never read the book of Maccabees? I assure you, many died during those days. There were unspeakable and despicable things down to Israel then. 

In case you missed it, Antiochus became a TYPE of the Antichrist Beast in Revelation.  

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Iamlamad,

I must admit that I have never seen anyone so confused about Revelation. The pre-wrathers are correct, the Tribulation is before the 6th seal and I believe in a pretrib rapture.

 

That's your take; mine is identical but I think it is you who fit this description. 

You are pulling the first 5 seals out of their context and have no understanding of their intended meaning.  What part of the church sent out with the gospel is "tribulation?" What part of war to stop the gospel a part of "tribulation?" What part of famines to stop the gospel is a part of "tribulation?"

"Tribulation" is PRESSURE put upon people to do what they would not normally do: such as take a mark they KNEW would put them in the lake of fire? 

I think you need to start over. You and I have never agreed on much of anything in Revelation. 

Let me explain what will make those days of GT Jesus spoke of:

Forcing people who know it is a sin to bow down to an image.

Forcing people to take the mark, siding thereby with the enemy of God.

These things were written in chapter 13 and won't be enforced until after chapter 14.

Edited June 10, 2019 by iamlamad