Help! I have a moral conflict!

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Still Alive said:

Isn't the whole concept of punishment about learning from your mistake, with the exception of the death penalty and life in prison?

Well, actually it is discipline that is about learning from your mistakes.   Being stoned to death under theocratic law doesn't appear to have character reform as its goal.

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

 

Irony of ironies.......sinful,ignorant men questioning the integrity of a loving God.....the very fact that he allows that should answer your doubts about his kindness and patience .Read the book of Job....perhaps those who have the nerve to be God’s critics can answer the age - old question. Where were “they” when God hung the planets?Where were “they” when this mean old man in the sky devised a plan that would save anybody that would come to him with a contrite heart? The plan where “ HE” endured unimaginable torture to save you from a fate you more than deserved.He took your deserved punishment so He could give you His Righteousness.Isnt He just awful?Give me a break.

 

[Debp]

10 hours ago, Adstar said:

My best advice to you is to read the Gospels and believe Jesus and trust in the atonement He secured for your Eternal salvation..

As for Canaan God was long suffering towards the evil that was done by the people of Canaan.. Don't you know they sacrificed babies by burning them alive to their false god molech...  So God is long suffering towards sinners but He is not eternally suffering towards sinners so sooner or later His wrath justice falls upon the wicked.. The same thing happened to the Jews when the Assyrians destroyed the 10 northern tribes and took them away and then later to the People of Jerusalem when the Babylonians came and destroyed their nation and lead a remnant into captivity in Babylon for 70 years..

You should also read about the times of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ.. How the wrath of God will be poured out on this world and the people of this world who will have persecuted Christians..

Weren't Canaanites known for all sorts of really horrendous deeds?

[Adstar]

10 hours ago, ambc said:

So if a woman makes a mistake and has sexual relations prior to marriage, she should be put to death, and that is the inspired word of God? If that were true (that sex prior to marriage should be given the death penalty), that would mean 97% of all people should die. Do you really believe that?

No i never said that did I ?? 

We are not to carry out judgements upon people as they did in the OT times, Since the times of Jesus we have been under grace. So we warn of Gods judgement and show people the way to be saved from the judgement of God.. So a woman guilty of fornication today must acknowledge her sin as such to God and believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement Jesus secured for the forgiveness of that sin..

It does not matter if it is 99% or 1% taking part in sexual intercourse outside of marriage is against the will of God and is thus a sin and yes it is worthy of death.. All sin no matter how trivial it seems to us disqualifies us from having eternal life withing Gods perfect eternal existence..  Every transgression a person has made against the will of God must be forgiven before a person can have eternal life with God..

 

[Adstar]

1 hour ago, Debp said:

Weren't Canaanites known for all sorts of really horrendous deeds?

Yes.. And another thing people don't seem to understand is that God had been in contact with those people.. The Hebrews on their return from Egypt even came into contact with a non Hebrew prophet of the land by the name of Balaam..

Numbers 22: KJV

"And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. {5} He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me: {6} Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed. {7} And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak. {8} And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, as the LORD shall speak unto me: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam. {9} And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee? {10} And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying, {11} Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out. {12} And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed. {13} And Balaam rose up in the morning, and said unto the princes of Balak, Get you into your land: for the LORD refuseth to give me leave to go with you."

[Still Alive]

16 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Well, actually it is discipline that is about learning from your mistakes.   Being stoned to death under theocratic law doesn't appear to have character reform as its goal.

Yes. The death penalty exception I mentioned.

[Rockson]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:29 PM, Tyler S. said:

 Do you think, for example, it really was the White Man’s “manifested destiny” to basically poach what amounted to over 90% of all Native Americans (peaceful ones or otherwise)? That doesn’t sound like peaceful conversion, loving thy neighbor, and not killing. And it made me think “there’s no way God wanted that! How is that justice? God love ALL his creations and surely he wanted them to come to the truth through peace and careful teaching” and then I read how God dealt with the Canaanites in the Old Testament....and my entire image of my loving, slow to anger, merciful, and most importantly JUST God....was turned on it’s head. I want to make it CLEAR that im still a believing Christian and I’m honestly just trying to understand this. Because, as a Christian today, I can’t imagine myself claiming that God told me to steal somebody else’s land and kill them...whether they’re a believer or not. Please help! Any advice is appreciated! Please keep it civil too as I know that this is a contentious issue. Bless!

About Native Americans...your statement there's no way God wanted that...meaning what that white man was wrong by increasingly moving in taking land? Or telling them where they were going to live as in reservations?  I think these issues are somewhat complex to get the whole picture of...how much did God promote certain actions and to what degree was it just men's selfish actions? Some of that I don't think we'll fully understand until the next world.

Now in regard to the Canaanites well here's the thing you have concluded that land is forever owned by the ones who live on it. In the natural world that is the way of thinking but with God not so. God is loving, long suffering towards cultures and most certainly want them to have land but when cultures continually exclude the serving of the true and living God from their the fact is in the sight of God he declares they own nothing.

And God can and has taken land away and given it to others who though the ones aren't perfect themselves at least their moral rightness is better than another. Now about in the OT where they killed them...well God didn't always say to always kill all of them all the time but I get your point. Why the instructions to kill any of them? Because God is long suffering and patient but there come a time that runs out. It did as well with the flood of Noah or the destruction of Sodom judgement sometimes has to come or God would no longer be good to allow things to always continue with evil.

[Rockson]

7 minutes ago, Rockson said:

duplicate

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Rockson
duplicate

[Rockson]

On 7/15/2018 at 11:36 PM, Tyler S. said:

 

Then you have to state that out God doesn’t institute justice amongst his children that he “loves.” There were innocent people that died and...what...God just must’ve wanted them to die in sin and be condemned to eternal torture?! That’s a complete contradiction to Jesus’s direct words. God must not have loved those women and babies that died worshiping false gods...never knowing the gospel. I refuse to believe that. “God so loved the world.”

Well there's no reason to believe that say children who say were caught up in a judgement on their ungodly culture there's no reason to believe they didn't make heaven their home. (or paradise and then Heaven later) if you know what I'm saying.

[Archangel Thyos]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:29 PM, Tyler S. said:

Hello all. I am happy to say that I am a believing Christian and I’ve begun to feel called to study the history of the faith more as well as study the scriptures. In this pursuit I’ve stumbles across some worrying things that have, and I regrettably and humbly say this, question, not the existence of, but the nature and ways of our God. See, I read AND hear that our God is a god of justice, love, peace, righteousness, mercy, and grace. I do believe this. Thank GOD that he is because where would we be without his sacrifice if Jesus? But, in light of this, I sometimes wonder how Christians, in the past, have done some of the most HORRIBLE things imaginable and claimed wholeheartedly that God backed them on it. Do you think, for example, it really was the White Man’s “manifested destiny” to basically poach what amounted to over 90% of all Native Americans (peaceful ones or otherwise)? That doesn’t sound like peaceful conversion, loving thy neighbor, and not killing. And it made me think “there’s no way God wanted that! How is that justice? God love ALL his creations and surely he wanted them to come to the truth through peace and careful teaching” and then I read how God dealt with the Canaanites in the Old Testament....and my entire image of my loving, slow to anger, merciful, and most importantly JUST God....was turned on it’s head. I want to make it CLEAR that im still a believing Christian and I’m honestly just trying to understand this. Because, as a Christian today, I can’t imagine myself claiming that God told me to steal somebody else’s land and kill them...whether they’re a believer or not. Please help! Any advice is appreciated! Please keep it civil too as I know that this is a contentious issue. Bless!

First of all, Israel's enemies were child sacrificing cannibals. If anything, god was putting them out of their misery. They aren't comparable to the native americans.

Secondly, the idea that we had a "manifest destiny" is called "propaganda." People make crap up all the time. its what humans do. Welcome to real life.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Archangel Thyos