Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

[Revelation Man]

I will endeavor to explain each step of the multi-faceted prophecy by Daniel in chapters 11 and 12. Its a tedious project to be sure, but I got tired of telling everyone who asked me what Daniel chapter 11 meant and having to tell them it was too complex for me to explain it unto them, so I went to studying and matching each verse with history as best I could. I found Daniel chapter 12 is an extension of Daniel chapter 11, so they kind of go hand and hand, Daniel 10 should actually go with this as its all one big vision, but for brevity's sake (if you want to call it that, LOL) we can chat about chapter 10 in the thread if needed. 

DANIEL CHAPTER 11 & 12 AN EXEGESIS OF SORTS: 

Daniel 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.

The first verse in chapter 11 is seemingly a direct continuation of chapter 10. Gabriel is still uttering unto Daniel things to come. Gabriel states that back in the first year of Darius (same year Daniel ch. 9 was given us) that he "stood to confirm and strengthen him". So what does this even mean? Who are the players here? Micheal, Gabriel, Darius and Daniel, so who stood to confirm and strengthen? I proffer that its Darius who is being strengthened by Gabriel and I get that by looking at the next few verses in contextual sequence. It seems Gabriel comes against certain world powers and sometimes strengthens other world powers, according to Gods will. The powers of the spiritual world and their behind the scenes back and forth is indeed fascinating.

2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

This seems to be the whole history of Persia in one verse, just a filler of history so to speak.

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

This of course is about Alexander the great of Grecian lore.

4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

After Alexander the Great died there stood up four Kings in his stead, this is not the norm to say the least. Succession of Kingdoms are usually passed from father to son or some close kin and thus this prophetic uttering was spot on, the Kingdom was divided unto his four Generals.

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described.

(Inset: Timeline & Map of the Syrian Wars.)

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife.

7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.

The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass.

10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress. 11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand. 12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.

This of course is the Forth Syrian War. Antiochus III tried to invade the south but Ptolemy IV defeated him despite having a lesser army, but this seems to have manged to weaken both of them somewhat.

13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches. 14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall. 15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand. 16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

This of course is the Fifth Syrian War. Antiochus III returned some years later with a much larger army and took the land of Israel by force.

17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thicker than water it seems !!

18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Antiochus III ventured to take more lands, against the will of the Romans. He angered his former ally Macedonian king Philip V also, and was eventually killed in his homeland while plundering a pagan temple.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the young heir to the throne.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest, Onias III (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money, it seems he was for sale at all times for a price, Jason's real name was Yeshua, he favored the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel, where as his brother Onias III was a pious man of God who was put to death.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be the protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them via craftiness. This was seemingly his master-plan.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt's trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning, just like the coming Anti-Christ will be.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.

This is the Sixth Syrian War, (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians stood by him and betrayed Ptolemy VI. He was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer.

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course eventually made king of Egypt by the Alexandrian's who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet. 

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters. 

 

SEGMENTED HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVES 

It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology. Although you might say we are at the utter end of verse 35, for the most part when the Rapture hits we will be at verse 36 via the Tribulation period. 

We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage, we know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verse 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall OR BE TRIED and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !!

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason, the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars. Rome came between Greece and Egypt putting a halt to Antiochus Epiphanes plans for good. Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

This verse insinuates he is an Atheist, and that he takes no heed of the thoughts of women, or it may mean he takes no heed unto an observance of the women's gods, what-soever that might entail. He listens not to women is the inference I take from this, their desires affect him on no wise. Like modern day Muslims, hes oblivious to their thoughts. He then magnifies himself or elevates himself to the equal of God. He of course demands to be worshiped as God.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

This European King who is born in Greece will be a man of war, he rules by brute force. I think the god his fathers knew not will be himself, he will of course place an image of himself in the temple of God. Thus he divides the land of Israel and the spoil thereof. Of course him being a Turk (Assyrian) its possible the god of his father could be Allah. 

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a part of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast). The Egyptian part of the Greek kingdom was the king of the south. I think the king of the south here is more than just Egypt however, my thinking is the king of the south here is all of North Africa along with maybe Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, Qatar,Yemen well you all get the point, its those nations who seemingly pushes at or comes against the king of the north or European Union and the Beast.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

The Anti-Christ (King of the North here) enters into the Holy land, and many countries shall be overthrown. I think this infers he conquers Israel and the many nations he entered into peace/security agreements with, I think it will be the king of the south or all the Arab nations I mentioned above plus or minus some here or there no doubt. Once he conquers Israel and these other nations he becomes the Beast of the region course. But God says Edom, Moab and Ammon will escape out of his hands, these three are just east of Israel. So basically Jordan is not touched, seemingly this is where Israel flees unto and God protects them in this Wilderness for 1260 days in Petra. 

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

This seems to confirm my understanding above, he conquers all of North Africa and thus hes the Mediterranean Sea Region Beast like all the ones that came before him. (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) He is the last of the Beasts, he will never pass his kingdom on to another thus he is known as the Beast himself, a man, the last Beast.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

We can not know for certain what this verse means, we can of course make an educated guess. The east tidings could mean Iran and Iraq or it could mean China. The north tidings could be Russia. Remember he is the king himself of the European Union thus its natural that if he invaded Israel and a bunch of oil rich nations he might very well get push back from China and Russia, both nations with great prestige and a vested interest in these oil rich nations themselves.

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The Glorious holy mountain is most certainly Jerusalem. You have the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea on either side of Jerusalem, so that could be what the verse is implying as per the "between the seas". I think we all know tabernacles means dwelling place, thus he will dwell in Jerusalem, seemingly in a grand palace.

Daniel 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I think Micheal is the Angel God has chosen to protect Israel at the end times thus he stands up meaning he wields his authority/power at the appointed time. Some think he allows the Anti-Christ to come forth, but I see that as Jesus Christ opening of the Seals in Rev. ch. 6. At this time, at the end times, Daniel is basically told this will be when the resurrections of the Saints will happen. I do not think Daniel is told any specific time as per the resurrections, its just a general timing, "at the end". So at this great time of troubles, Micheal will deliver the Jewish peoples from their despair, I think he delivers them unto Petra in Jordan and protects them for 1260 days. Everyone who makes it to heaven however has to do it via faith !!

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

That was the end of the vision Gabriel gave to Daniel. It spanned from Daniels time on earth, both the Persian and Grecian Empires and all the way to the end of time and the resurrection of the Saints and even tells of a future eternity. Gabriel told Daniel of Babylon and coming Beast systems. It was not easily understood, especially before all of these events came to pass, even now many people still have problems understanding these complex prophesies of God. But Gabriel must have sensed Daniels confusion, thus he seemingly tries to explain it somewhat, thus Dan. ch. 12 is extended a wee bit for Daniel.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel sees two more "people" besides Gabriel. One is a man clothed in linen on the water, this would seem to me to be Jesus Christ even though Daniel had no concept of exactly who he was it seems. Gabriel or another Angel then asks Jesus how long shall it be until the end of these wonders. I think he sensed Daniels confusion and tried to give him some further understanding.

He then proceeds to swear by Him that lives forever, that when the holy peoples shall be scattered there will be a time, times and a half [time] and everything will have been accomplished, or these wonders will have ceased. Meaning that from the time Israel are scattered or flee Judea until all of these prophesies are fulfilled there will be 1260 days. (time, times and half time) In other words Jesus returns and buttons up all of these prophesies exactly 1260 days after the Israel people flee Judea (are scattered). Daniel then asks for more understanding because he had no clue what he was being told SEE BELOW:

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Daniel begs for more clarity, but Gabriel tells him to go his way, he basically tells him it will take future events coming to pass in order for people to understand these prophetic uttering's. At the time of the end these prophesies will start to become clearer via our understandings of history and via the word of God. He then tells Daniel many shall be purified and made white (Jesus' blood) and tried, but the wicked will still do wickedness and will never understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

This is of course the end time Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24 and Daniel here in this book of Daniel in several places. This is being spoken of as an event that happens 1290 days from the end of these wonders or prophesies. So just like its 1260 days from the time the Jews power is scattered, thus they are conquered, likewise its 1290 days from the time the Abomination of Desolation is set up until Jesus' second coming ends all of these wonders Daniel was being shown. The Abomination of Desolation has to come before the Jews flee Judea, thus the 1290 event must come before the 1260 event. Thus the 1335 event would have to come before both the 1260 and the 1290 events. Its just mathematical logistics.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Gabriel is telling Daniel things he knows he will never understand in his lifetime. But Gabriel understands that Israel will reject Jesus the Messiah, he understands they will be dispersed all over the world and that God will turn His back on Israel for almost 2000 years. He understands that even when God starts blessing Israel again (1948) they still do not believe in God/Jesus as their Messiah. Then Gabriel seemingly tells Daniel blessed is he that comes to the 1335 Event. Meaning as per my understanding, that is the day Israel starts turning back unto God and accepts their Messiah Jesus Christ. (1335 days before Jesus' second coming). This is why they know to flee Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation, they have to have already repented or else they would not follow Jesus' instructions would they?  This is why they know to flee to Petra 1/3 are now Messianic Jews. This is why they understand who the Anti-Christ is when they see the events unfolding, remember in Matthew 24, Jesus says Behold, I have told you before[hand]. Israel have repented before the Day of the Lord comes just like Malachi 4:5-6 says they will do. God sends Elijah to turn Israel back unto God before the Great a Dreadful Day of the Lord comes. The Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) starts at the 1260 Event.

Then Daniel is told he will stand with the Saints at the end.

How I see the 1260, 1290 and 1335 Events.

1.) The 1335 Event is 1335 Days from the time Israel repents until Jesus' Second Coming, this is when the Two-witnesses show up in Jerusalem.

2.) The 1290 Event is 1290 Days from the Abomination of Desolation is set-up until Jesus' Second Coming, the Jews Flee at this point, not at the 1260 Event.

3.) The 1260 Event is 1260 Days from the time Israel is Conquered or their power is Scattered until Jesus' Second Coming.

Israel are given a 30 day period to Flee Judea, when the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem it will be to late. They must leave when they see the AoD set up in the Temple of God. This is the False Prophets doings, but the Anti-Christ will be released 30 days later. 

[Diaste]

mispost

Edited June 17, 2018 by Diaste

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The first verse in chapter 11 is seemingly a direct continuation of chapter 10. Gabriel is still uttering unto Daniel things to come. Gabriel states that back in the first year of Darius (same year Daniel ch. 9 was given us) that he "stood to confirm and strengthen him". So what does this even mean? Who are the players here? Micheal, Gabriel, Darius and Daniel, so who stood to confirm and strengthen? I proffer that its Darius who is being strengthened by Gabriel and I get that by looking at the next few verses in contextual sequence. It seems Gabriel comes against certain world powers and sometimes strengthens other world powers, according to Gods will. The powers of the spiritual world and their behind the scenes back and forth is indeed fascinating.

It seems that from Ch.10 it's not Gabriel but Jesus bringing this to Daniel. Witness:

"5...man clothed in linen, whose loins [were] girded with fine gold of Uphaz: 6 His body also [was] like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude."

That's not an angel.

And this person does not dispute this, "17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord?"

Not Gabriel, this is the Lord Jesus himself. And if this is the Lord Jesus, which I'm convinced it is, then he was opposed for 21 days by his demon enemies. This tells us that there is war in the spirit realm, with Rev 12, "7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels" which means Jesus is coming to fight a war at the end of the age with an army of angels and not the bride. But that's another discussion.

 

So it's a great story. No scholarly citations, no historical proof, not a single expert in the fields of history, language, archaeology, etc. So while it's a great story, it's just a story. I'm not saying it isn't all true, it may be, but without a bibliography how can anyone check your work? It's not knowledge if it cannot be verified, reproduced or peer reviewed. Your not saying you're peerless and your work is beyond academic scrutiny? Are you? 

It's fascinating to me that you can be so close and yet in another universe at the same time. Your story follows the lineage of the Seleucids with historical actions of the succession of Seleucid kings, right to the willful king, and then you grab a giant crowbar and cram this

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

into the middle of a story that should have led to only one conclusion, the Seleucids are the origin of the beast and his coming kingdom. Don't you see that? You just followed them with adequate enough detail to prove this. 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The king here has to be the end time Anti-Christ/Beast of Daniel 7:11. He is of course not called the king of the north or south here for a specific reason,

You're correct. There is a specific reason he's not called the KOTN, it's because the KOTN is Jon Snow! lol Sorry. Couldn't resist.

The specific reason is, the beast is not the KOTN because Asia Minor would be the KOTN.

When Alexander's kingdom was divided to the four winds, or to the cardinal directions, the kingdoms and the rulers were settled after wars of consolidation. The victors emerged thus: Ptolemy in Egypt, Antigonus in Asia Minor, Macedonia went to Cassander and the great Middle Eastern region ruled by Seleucus. Staying true to the narrative of the whole of the chapters of the Book of Daniel concerning the end of the age, we should stay true to the historical fulfillment of these prophecies. That would mean Egypt would always be the king of the south and Asia Minor would always be the king of the north, other wise there is confusion. The above mentioned approach is seamless, reasonable, unforced and allows flawless interpretation of the text. 

So then in this verse of Daniel 11, "40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind," we are given the reason he is not called the KOTN, and it's not because,

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars.

it's because the willful king is in between and to the east of the kings of the north and south. Look at the verse, now look at what you said below.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North.

Dan 11:40 makes little sense by popular interpretation. Is the KOTN going fight against himself? Presumably from Dan 11:40 the king of the south pushes at the KOTN but then who is the 'him' in verse 40? By popular thought the 'him' is the KOTN and this is who the KOTS fights, but it's the same 'him' at which the KOTN comes like a whirlwind and it's not the king of the north or the king of the north would be fighting himself.

The fact is the 'him' in verse 40 is the 'him' from here: "36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."

The willful king, who is the 'him' of Dan 11:36-39, spoken of twice in Dan 11:40 and is whom the northern and southern king fight against at the time of the end. The  willful king in 36-39 is the direct antecedent of the 'him' in verse 40 and is the object against which the actions of the two kings are directed. 

Three kings, not two. No Rome. Islam. Egypt, Asia Minor, and there allies. If you were to peruse world events and national sentiments you would see the stage is set for this exact scenario. Turkey is against the current iteration of Islam and has suffered at their hands, as has Egypt, who sees ISIS as a danger to Egyptian authority. 

The old ways of seeing Dan 11 are gone like vapor in the face of the world shaping we see before us.

But don't fret. You'll see it. No one is going anywhere just yet.

[Daniel 11:36]

"Three kings, not two"

 

Two kings .... one north and one south

The king of the north is the human little horn driven by Abaddon

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

It seems that from Ch.10 it's not Gabriel but Jesus bringing this to Daniel. Witness:

 

Yes, Jesus is shown first in chapter 10, he speaks of Micheal helping him, but like I stated, I think chapters 10, 11 and 12 are one big vision. Thus Jesus gives the Visions and then tells Gabriel to explain the Visions unto Daniel. It seems there are three there, Jesus and two Angels, so that is correct, I think the Man in Linen is Jesus Christ, but I could be wrong, but I have always thought that's who it is. 

I guess I should have stated Gabriel is interpreting the visions, see Daniel ch. 12. But I agree Jesus and two Angels are bringing this vision and interpretation unto Daniel, its pretty much all the same, they are bringing Daniel the word of knowledge. Some people deny its Jesus, some say it has to be Micheal and not Jesus because it says to start chapter 11 that EVEN I STOOD TO STRENGTHEN Darius the Mede, thus since we know Gabriel is named in Chapter 12 as interpreting these visions, I just credit it all to Gabriel, I usually don't get any push-back on this, but we will go with it could be Jesus, Gabriel and Michael, I am OK with that brother, and I agree, good observation there. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not Gabriel, this is the Lord Jesus himself. And if this is the Lord Jesus, which I'm convinced it is, then he was opposed for 21 days by his demon enemies. This tells us that there is war in the spirit realm, with Rev 12, "7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels" which means Jesus is coming to fight a war at the end of the age with an army of angels and not the bride. But that's another discussion.

 

He was opposed by the Prince of Persia (Apollyon), who did not want to allow Greece (Alexander the Great) to defeat Persia, but God/Jesus/Micheal wanted Greece to win, that is why Alexander the Great had such a swift victory, Jesus/Micheal was doing his bidding !! Then when Greece was given the victory, Apollyon became the Prince of Greece, then the Prince of Rome, thus the Scarlet Colored Beast was OF THE SEVEN while being the 8th. The War in Heaven is not about this vision per se, this Vision about these Kingdoms over the Mediterranean Sea Region. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

So it's a great story. No scholarly citations, no historical proof, not a single expert in the fields of history, language, archaeology, etc. So while it's a great story, it's just a story. I'm not saying it isn't all true, it may be, but without a bibliography how can anyone check your work? It's not knowledge if it cannot be verified, reproduced or peer reviewed. Your not saying you're peerless and your work is beyond academic scrutiny? Are you? 

 

Its History brother, looking these people up is tedious, but its not rocket science, I did this for myself and my brethren, I am not looking to publish a book here brother. And I don't usually debate in my own threads that heavily, I leave it for others to knock around. I will answer questions if replied to, but I just do this for people to bookmark and enjoy as a reference point. I do things for my own pleasure, not the worlds pleasure brother. Learn to lighten up a little, its all good. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's fascinating to me that you can be so close and yet in another universe at the same time. Your story follows the lineage of the Seleucids with historical actions of the succession of Seleucid kings, right to the willful king, and then you grab a giant crowbar and cram this

On 6/16/2018 at 5:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

 Rome of course eventually conquered both Egypt and Greece thus becoming the Fourth Beast of the region over Israel.

into the middle of a story that should have led to only one conclusion, the Seleucids are the origin of the beast and his coming kingdom. Don't you see that? You just followed them with adequate enough detail to prove this. 

That's because the Antiochus Epiphanes situation as per his death, ended the Grecian Dynasty as per being a Beast over the Mediterranean Sea Region for all intense purposes, AE4 was a forerunner to the Anti-Christ, then after verses 33-35, we see the Anti-Christ in verses 36-45, so of course I need to put forth who became the Fourth Beast brother, Rome defeated Greece at Antioch and thus pretty much took over the Region, they were already ordering AE4 around anyway. Its not going to be a man via the Seleucid lineage, he will be an Assyrian, read Isaiah ch. 10, then the first part of Isaiah ch. 11. Hes a real hodge podge of a stinker. Hes an Assyrian, born in Greece, who comes to power in the E.U.. thus the Seleucid's are not important at all as per the coming Anti-Christ, the only think that is Important is that he is the King of the North, NO ONE GETS THAT !! God remember, WANTS TO CONFUSE/CONFOUND the World, but we are given these things by the Holy Spirit starting in the end times (NOW). You seem to be looking towards a LINEAGE, God has already NAMED the Lineage, its the Assyrian Lineage !! How can it be the Seleucid lineage? Have you ever thought about that? Or do you think they are Seleucid's? They aren't. We have the Assyrian lineage, the Greek Kingdom he is born in via Dan. ch. 8 AND the Beast Empire he Arises out of and comes to power in, the Fourth Beast (Rome) via the E.U. All Three have to be CHECKED OFF or it will not fit. That is three of the Six Beast Heads he has ties to, he might (operative word MIGHT...that's how I think) have ties to all Six Beast Heads, I never thought of that........I will look at that though for sure, its what I do.

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

You're correct. There is a specific reason he's not called the KOTN, it's because the KOTN is Jon Snow! lol Sorry. Couldn't resist.

I never heard of Jon Snow, you will have to fill me in on the inside joke here. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

The specific reason is, the beast is not the KOTN because Asia Minor would be the KOTN.

 When Alexander's kingdom was divided to the four winds, or to the cardinal directions, the kingdoms and the rulers were settled after wars of consolidation. The victors emerged thus: Ptolemy in Egypt, Antigonus in Asia Minor, Macedonia went to Cassander and the great Middle Eastern region ruled by Seleucus. Staying true to the narrative of the whole of the chapters of the Book of Daniel concerning the end of the age, we should stay true to the historical fulfillment of these prophecies. That would mean Egypt would always be the king of the south and Asia Minor would always be the king of the north, other wise there is confusion. The above mentioned approach is seamless, reasonable, unforced and allows flawless interpretation of the text. 

So then in this verse of Daniel 11, "40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind," we are given the reason he is not called the KOTN, and it's not because,

I see the last KOTN as being the Assyrian, born in Greece, and coming to power in the E.U. Google the Roman Empire Beast Map....then Google the (ENP) European Neighborhood Policy MAP.....Thy are IDENTICAL. Read up on the ENP, its a Seven Year Agreements (Covenant) which is IN PLACE NOW, in my opinion, with the E.U. and MANY Nations. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

On 6/16/2018 at 5:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

the Sixth Syrian War ended the Syrian Wars.

it's because the willful king is in between and to the east of the kings of the north and south. Look at the verse, now look at what you said below.

On 6/16/2018 at 5:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North.

The Anti-Christ is the KOTN Brother. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

Dan 11:40 makes little sense by popular interpretation. Is the KOTN going fight against himself? Presumably from Dan 11:40 the king of the south pushes at the KOTN but then who is the 'him' in verse 40? By popular thought the 'him' is the KOTN and this is who the KOTS fights, but it's the same 'him' at which the KOTN comes like a whirlwind and it's not the king of the north or the king of the north would be fighting himself.

 

The term HIM is just implying that they are pushing at EACH OTHER. He pushes at HIM and he comes against HIM. 

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

The fact is the 'him' in verse 40 is the 'him' from here: "36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."

The willful king, who is the 'him' of Dan 11:36-39, spoken of twice in Dan 11:40 and is whom the northern and southern king fight against at the time of the end. The  willful king in 36-39 is the direct antecedent of the 'him' in verse 40 and is the object against which the actions of the two kings are directed. 

Three kings, not two. No Rome. Islam. Egypt, Asia Minor, and there allies. If you were to peruse world events and national sentiments you would see the stage is set for this exact scenario. Turkey is against the current iteration of Islam and has suffered at their hands, as has Egypt, who sees ISIS as a danger to Egyptian authority. 

The old ways of seeing Dan 11 are gone like vapor in the face of the world shaping we see before us.

But don't fret. You'll see it. No one is going anywhere just yet.

No brother there are only two Kings not three. I am getting tired tonight/SLEEPY, keep digging, its all good. God Bless brother. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Daniel 11:36]

There are only two kings in Daniel 11:36 thru 11:45 as stated

The king of the north, and the king of the south

The king of the south will push at the king of the north and the king of the north will attack him

The king of Egypt will be his victim 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

There are only two kings in Daniel 11:36 thru 11:45 as stated

The king of the north, and the king of the south

The king of the south will push at the king of the north and the king of the north will attack him

The king of Egypt will be his victim 

 

No. The first sentence of verse 40 proves it's the willful king against which the KOTS pushes. 

[Daniel 11:36]

You are wrong on this issue Diaste .... there are only two kings involved, the king of the north and king of the south

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I never heard of Jon Snow, you will have to fill me in on the inside joke here

I watch too many YouTube vids. He's a TV character and his title is King of the North.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

You are wrong on this issue Diaste .... there are only two kings involved, the king of the north and king of the south

Yeah, I used to think that as well, "That can't be right...only two kings." But no one has yet proven, with scripture, the KOTN is the same as the willful king.

If you can, please do. I'm never wrong when I allow scripture to correct my thinking.