iamlamad Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 44 minutes ago, JoeCanada said: Well, giving up is hardly a way to end a discussion. If you are giving up because there is no answer to what you claim is "the arrows are the Gospel going forth with the first horse that has only a bow"........... then I understand. We can't "add" things to what is written. If the arrows are the Gospel going forth, as you stated......and there are no arrows, then there is no Gospel. If the bow is the Gospel going forth.....then that's a different story. This will need some explanation though. Yes, I do know where Paul got his Gospel from, though I have no idea why you think it's relevant to the "bow with no arrows". And no, I don't want to argue. I do like discussing things. And when I hear someone making claims which are not scriptural, then I question it. We've been down this road before. I'll keep questioning. Respectfully....... The "giving up" was a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 4 hours ago, The Light said: Quote The search did not end in failure. The Lion of the tribe of Judah HATH PREVAILED to open the book and loose the seals thereof. Rev 5 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. If you are going to flat out disagree with John, well, what can I say? You seem to do that. Let's look together: 5 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. Do you see verse 3? You cannot ignore verse 3 because you favor verse 4! You amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) On 6/28/2019 at 4:14 PM, The Light said: Quote Answer this question: WHY was John weeping, and WHY was it much? John was weeping because he didn't realize that the Lion of the tribe of Judah HATH PREVAILED to open the book. He is the Lamb of God. 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” Ha ha ha! Really? Your answer is an answer from someone who THINKS they know, when in fact they don't. There is TIME between verse 3 and verse 5. Before verse 5 no one was found worthy. That search ended in failure. You simply avoid answering. Why? Because you don't know. So you make fun of me as if I don't know. The truth is, I know and you don't. It is in the TIMING. It is written that Jesus "prevailed." Indeed He DID: He prevailed over death and the grave! That was part of Him becoming the Redeemer. Paul wrote that if Christ did not rise, then we are still in our sins. If you have not seen this now, I doubt if you will. Perhaps someone will explain it to you on the way up, or after you have arrived in heaven. Edited June 30, 2019 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 hour ago, JoeCanada said: Well, giving up is hardly a way to end a discussion. If you are giving up because there is no answer to what you claim is "the arrows are the Gospel going forth with the first horse that has only a bow"........... then I understand. We can't "add" things to what is written. If the arrows are the Gospel going forth, as you stated......and there are no arrows, then there is no Gospel. If the bow is the Gospel going forth.....then that's a different story. This will need some explanation though. Yes, I do know where Paul got his Gospel from, though I have no idea why you think it's relevant to the "bow with no arrows". And no, I don't want to argue. I do like discussing things. And when I hear someone making claims which are not scriptural, then I question it. We've been down this road before. I'll keep questioning. Respectfully....... Respectfully, I am not adding anything. You and I know John did not mention arrows. You and I both know John DID mention a bow. Was it to be a simply ribbon as Strong's says? I doubt that very much! It is the Greek word Toxon from where we get our English word "toxic." Is a bow a weapon? Is a bow from the Greek word "toxon" a weapon? We both know it is. Let's suppose this is indeed the Antichrist. If it was Him, we know He will attack three kingdoms and take down their kings. HOW, my friend, could he do this with a bow and no arrows? The commentators tell me this crown is a victor's crown, meaning this rider will have ultimate victory, not just beginning victory. HOW, my friend, could this then represent the Antichrist Beast when he will fail and be put into the lake of fire? He should have been given a looser's crown. Now, suppose this is to represent the church: the church has weapons, but they are not physical weapons of flesh and blood. Is it even remotely possible that in a very symbolic description of the church, a toxon bow with no arrows might possibly represent spiritual weapons? Could you give that a 1% possibility? Someone suggested : the lack of arrows may suggest war fought, not with blood-letting weapons, but with words or ideas; I could agree with that. By the way, words are invisible. You know, sort of like arrows not shown. OK. I will retreat on the arrows. Sorry I ever mentioned them. They are not there. I must have ad libed them. Some might say it is a useless bow because no arrows. So now we have a bow with no arrows. What do YOU think the bow represents? If the bow is the Gospel going forth.....then that's a different story. This will need some explanation though. The problem is, John gives us no more explanation. I do not see a bow as the gospel. Perhaps others may. A bow is a long distance weapon. It is more for offense, unless someone is attacking a fort. How is the gospel preached? It must first be accepted and learned by the speaker. My main point on the first seal is the TIMING of that seal; that is what God taught me. i can only guess on bows and no arrows. I should not have guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Hi Spock.... You say that the OD (and the 70th week of Daniel) was written primarily for the Jews, and not the Church. How do we really know who is Jewish? I mean, how many of us, going way, way, way back, might have some Jewish ancestry? Maybe only part Jewish ancestry.....even a little bit. For instance, my late wife was English, born on an American Air Force base in England with a surname Campbell....yet had some Native American bloodline...only a little bit, but still it was there. Do we really know? In Marks Gospel, chapter 13:37....Jesus says.."What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert'. Who is the "all"? Is it to "all the Jews" only? Now Mathews Gospel was clearly written for a Jewish Christian audience. Do we then separate the Jew from the Christian?......to maintain peoples beliefs that the Olivet Discourse was only for the Jew? Are Jewish Christians not part of the Church? Then we have Luke's Gospel, clearly written for a Gentile audience. Yet, the same Olivet Discourse presented in Matt 24 is here in Luke 21. Where do we draw the line? Good questions Joe. If you don’t mind let me answer you tomorrow. It’s 11:00 here and I didn’t get any nap today and played tennis in this heat. Good night brother Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Spock out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,173 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 1,097 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 3 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Hi Spock.... You say that the OD (and the 70th week of Daniel) was written primarily for the Jews, and not the Church. How do we really know who is Jewish? I mean, how many of us, going way, way, way back, might have some Jewish ancestry? Maybe only part Jewish ancestry.....even a little bit. For instance, my late wife was English, born on an American Air Force base in England with a surname Campbell....yet had some Native American bloodline...only a little bit, but still it was there. Do we really know? In Marks Gospel, chapter 13:37....Jesus says.."What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert'. Who is the "all"? Is it to "all the Jews" only? Now Mathews Gospel was clearly written for a Jewish Christian audience. Do we then separate the Jew from the Christian?......to maintain peoples beliefs that the Olivet Discourse was only for the Jew? Are Jewish Christians not part of the Church? Then we have Luke's Gospel, clearly written for a Gentile audience. Yet, the same Olivet Discourse presented in Matt 24 is here in Luke 21. Where do we draw the line? I will step in for a moment; When was the mystery of the Church or Bride of Christ revealed? Pentecost. If this mystery was first revealed at Pentecost, then those saints mentioned in the O.D. was not referring to the Church, but only Israel. In Christ Montana Marv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 29, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2019 13 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Hi Spock.... You say that the OD (and the 70th week of Daniel) was written primarily for the Jews, and not the Church. How do we really know who is Jewish? I mean, how many of us, going way, way, way back, might have some Jewish ancestry? Maybe only part Jewish ancestry.....even a little bit. For instance, my late wife was English, born on an American Air Force base in England with a surname Campbell....yet had some Native American bloodline...only a little bit, but still it was there. Do we really know? In Marks Gospel, chapter 13:37....Jesus says.."What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert'. Who is the "all"? Is it to "all the Jews" only? Now Mathews Gospel was clearly written for a Jewish Christian audience. Do we then separate the Jew from the Christian?......to maintain peoples beliefs that the Olivet Discourse was only for the Jew? Are Jewish Christians not part of the Church? Then we have Luke's Gospel, clearly written for a Gentile audience. Yet, the same Olivet Discourse presented in Matt 24 is here in Luke 21. Where do we draw the line? Okay Joe, I’m back. I will try to answer your questions through my eyes as I see this. As you know, I do not have a market in all wisdom so let the buyer beware.....lol i am convinced Jesus came to set up His kingdom in Israel and thus at times didn’t even reach out to the Gentile because he came for the Jew first. His words in the OD definitely have a Jewish flavor as you can see for yourself....pray you don’t have to travel on the Sabbath; endure to the end; flea Jerusalem for the mountains.... This the CONTEXT for me is Jewish, not church. Plus, the 3 questions asked him had nothing to do with the church. While he did mention the church to the 12 I’m sure they had no real understanding of what he was talking about because even up to the end they believed he would establish his earthly kingdom on earth in Israel. paul tells us the rapture is a MYSTERY which means has not been revealed. So if Paul calls it a mystery then even Jesus did not reveal it, that is how I see it. Paul wrote 20 years after Jesus rose again. God set aside the Jews to build his body....the church. The church is unique. See 1 Cor 10:32....clearly the church is distinct from Israel, we are not the same. See also Romans 11 to support that. Luke and Mark refer to some of the OD in their accounts but nothing there makes me see CHURCH. Even Luke’s often quoted words here in 21:36 But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life—and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare. 35For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.36So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen and to stand before the Son of Man.” .....these words have Jew (and Trib survivors) during the end times just before his return to earth all over it. Daniels 70 weeks were written for Israel and one can possibly infer is not meant for the body of Christ. Anyhow, this is not all of my thinking, just enough to give you something to ponder. I have a feeling you probably have heard this already. It is okay we agree to disagree.....I still respect and love my pre wrath and post Trib brothers even though I believe they got this one wrong. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,125 Content Per Day: 1.06 Reputation: 215 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 23 hours ago, iamlamad said: Ha ha ha! Really? Your answer is an answer from from someone who THINKS they know, when in fact they don't. There is TIME between verse 3 and verse 5. Before verse 5 no one was found worthy. That search ended in failure. You simply avoid answering why because you don't know. So you make fun of me as if I don't know. The truth is, I know and you don't. It is in the TIMING. It is written that Jesus "prevailed." Indeed He DID: He prevailed over death and the grave! That was part of Him becoming the Redeemer. Paul wrote that if Christ did not rise, then we are still in our sins. If you have not seen this now, I doubt if you will. Perhaps someone will explain it to you on the way up, or after you have arrived in heaven. Are you still cackling about nothing. We already know that John was shown things that will happen HEREAFTER. That means that anything that you dream up that occurs before is wrong. Face it, admit it, embrace it or just be wrong, as proven by scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Light said: Are you still cackling about nothing. We already know that John was shown things that will happen HEREAFTER. That means that anything that you dream up that occurs before is wrong. Face it, admit it, embrace it or just be wrong, as proven by scripture. Well, I know now that I can't take anything you write seriously. You know as well as I know that God DID show John things hereafter. God satisfied that statement. Where you miss it is even THINKING that verse says God count not add some history for clarity. I understand, when you can't argue from scripture, you just ramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Spock said: Okay Joe, I’m back. I will try to answer your questions through my eyes as I see this. As you know, I do not have a market in all wisdom so let the buyer beware.....lol i am convinced Jesus came to set up His kingdom in Israel and thus at times didn’t even reach out to the Gentile because he came for the Jew first. His words in the OD definitely have a Jewish flavor as you can see for yourself....pray you don’t have to travel on the Sabbath; endure to the end; flea Jerusalem for the mountains.... This the CONTEXT for me is Jewish, not church. Plus, the 3 questions asked him had nothing to do with the church. While he did mention the church to the 12 I’m sure they had no real understanding of what he was talking about because even up to the end they believed he would establish his earthly kingdom on earth in Israel. paul tells us the rapture is a MYSTERY which means has not been revealed. So if Paul calls it a mystery then even Jesus did not reveal it, that is how I see it. Paul wrote 20 years after Jesus rose again. God set aside the Jews to build his body....the church. The church is unique. See 1 Cor 10:32....clearly the church is distinct from Israel, we are not the same. See also Romans 11 to support that. Luke and Mark refer to some of the OD in their accounts but nothing there makes me see CHURCH. Even Luke’s often quoted words here in 21:36 But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life—and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare. 35For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.36So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen and to stand before the Son of Man.” .....these words have Jew (and Trib survivors) during the end times just before his return to earth all over it. Daniels 70 weeks were written for Israel and one can possibly infer is not meant for the body of Christ. Anyhow, this is not all of my thinking, just enough to give you something to ponder. I have a feeling you probably have heard this already. It is okay we agree to disagree.....I still respect and love my pre wrath and post Trib brothers even though I believe they got this one wrong. Lol Not to mention, we don't worship in synogogues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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