Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

[iamlamad]

19 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

I don't know why you guys keep thinking I was saying it was the 6th seal. That wasn't what I said.

I was only asking Spock if he thought it was. 

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So let me ask this then, if the beginning of the Trib is the 7th seal as you noted. What is the meaning of the 1st seal. 

Many here think it is the anti -Christ. If it is the anti - Christ, shouldn't he been in the Trib?

Many here wish to pull the first seal out of its context. What is the context? It is Jesus ascending back into heaven. That took place around 32 AD. No one can find 2000 years hidden in those verses, or even between those verses: it is not there. Jesus got that book into His hands as soon as He arrived back in the throne room, and began breaking seals, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. At the fifth seal, we see a long time of waiting, for the last martyr of the church age.
 

The first seal is the CHURCH sent out with the gospel. Seals 2-4 are the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. They were limited to 1/4 of the earth's surface, centered on Jerusalem.

[Pudgenik]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Many here wish to pull the first seal out of its context. What is the context? It is Jesus ascending back into heaven. That took place around 32 AD. No one can find 2000 years hidden in those verses, or even between those verses: it is not there. Jesus got that book into His hands as soon as He arrived back in the throne room, and began breaking seals, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. At the fifth seal, we see a long time of waiting, for the last martyr of the church age.
 

The first seal is the CHURCH sent out with the gospel. Seals 2-4 are the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. They were limited to 1/4 of the earth's surface, centered on Jerusalem.

I don't agree with that, there are too many issues involved. 

However, you are right to have Jerusalem as the center point. It is the place God refers to it as " the Apple of God's eye".

I just want to point out with the black, dappled and red horses. If you look at the directions the scripture points out for them. Using Jerusalem as the starting point. Europe economy in ruins. (Ireland, Spain and Greece nearly caused the world economy to go into a tailspin just a few years ago. But the world economy is still very shaky even now)

To the south, Africa. I have read in science journals that over 90% of modern diseases originate in Africa. (A friend of mine was stationed in Egypt a few years back. He told me the air outside the cities is so bad you have to keep your nose and mouth covered. People relieve themselves in the streets, backyards, where ever. Sanitation is terrible.)

Most of the Terrorism starts in Iran and Syria. To the East of Israel.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

I don't agree with that, there are too many issues involved. 

However, you are right to have Jerusalem as the center point. It is the place God refers to it as " the Apple of God's eye".

I just want to point out with the black, dappled and red horses. If you look at the directions the scripture points out for them. Using Jerusalem as the starting point. Europe economy in ruins. (Ireland, Spain and Greece nearly caused the world economy to go into a tailspin just a few years ago. But the world economy is still very shaky even now)

To the south, Africa. I have read in science journals that over 90% of modern diseases originate in Africa. (A friend of mine was stationed in Egypt a few years back. He told me the air outside the cities is so bad you have to keep your nose and mouth covered. People relieve themselves in the streets, backyards, where ever. Sanitation is terrible.)

Most of the Terrorism starts in Iran and Syria. To the East of Israel.

I cannot convince you about the first seal - but the Holy Spirit can!  I agree, these horsemen with their colored horses, the Red, the Black, and the Pale, ride together. The white rider rides alone. The three together are to represent the devil and his attempts to stop the Gospel; to hold it within that 1/4 of the earth. We now know how poorly he did!

But you are right, famine after famine in Africa. The black plague that killed about 1/3, two different times in Europe. I am convinced these are church age events.

[Quasar93]

10 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

I don't agree with that, there are too many issues involved. 

However, you are right to have Jerusalem as the center point. It is the place God refers to it as " the Apple of God's eye".

I just want to point out with the black, dappled and red horses. If you look at the directions the scripture points out for them. Using Jerusalem as the starting point. Europe economy in ruins. (Ireland, Spain and Greece nearly caused the world economy to go into a tailspin just a few years ago. But the world economy is still very shaky even now)

To the south, Africa. I have read in science journals that over 90% of modern diseases originate in Africa. (A friend of mine was stationed in Egypt a few years back. He told me the air outside the cities is so bad you have to keep your nose and mouth covered. People relieve themselves in the streets, backyards, where ever. Sanitation is terrible.)

Most of the Terrorism starts in Iran and Syria. To the East of Israel.

 

The first rider, of four, on the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2, is the very same person as the "he" who confirms a covenant in Dan.9:27.  He is the person who will trigger the seven year tribulation; with the first 3.5 years of world peace, followed by the final 3.5 years of Great Tribulation.  Which Jesus will end, as documented in Rev.19:11-21, where He is seen riding a white horse also.

 

Quasar93

[Pudgenik]

11 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

The first rider, of four, on the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2, is the very same person as the "he" who confirms a covenant in Dan.9:27.  He is the person who will trigger the seven year tribulation; with the first 3.5 years of world peace, followed by the final 3.5 years of Great Tribulation.  Which Jesus will end, as documented in Rev.19:11-21, where He is seen riding a white horse also.

 

Quasar93

The rider on the white horse is not a person, just as the riders on the other three are not people.

Just like the beast that comes out of the sea isn't a creature. 

But for the riddle, they are all living. ?

[Quasar93]

10 hours ago, Pudgenik said:

The rider on the white horse is not a person, just as the riders on the other three are not people.

Just like the beast that comes out of the sea isn't a creature. 

But for the riddle, they are all living. ?

 

Thanks for your input, Pudgenik

With all due respect, I stand by the views I posted.  For example, the beast out of the sea is a man, according to Rev.13:18, who is also #666.

The following is from an article of mine on my own website about the rider on the white horse, as well as the others:

 The Rider On The White Horse In Rev.6:2:

The first horseman of four, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seal prologue of Revelation, is the Antichrist. Who will deceive people into believing He is the Christ, who starts the seven year tribulation according to Dan.9:27 and Rev.6:2. Also known as the 70th and final week of God's decree on the destiny of Israel and the Day of the Lord, all one and the same event]. Confirming that he is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, of whom Jesus refers to in Mt.24:4.. The Antichrist starts the seven year tribulation, immediately following the rapture of the Church, documented in Jn.14:2-4 and 28; 1 Thes.4:13-17 and 2 Thes.2:3-4, 7-8.

Jesus is seen riding a white horse, recorded in Rev.19:11, "who is called faithful and true, with Justice,He judges and makes war," who finishes the seven year tribulation, in Rev.19:17-20. following His second coming in vs 14, with His saints [Church] following Him in His armies from heaven, and His angels in Mt.24:31! 

As for the other three horsemen, the second rider on a red horse brings wars and rumors of wars, followed by the third rider on a black horse bringing famine, pestilence and earthquakes. The fourth Pale one follows, who's rider is called death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were bringing death by famine and plague over a fourth of the earth, recorded in Rev.6:1-8. "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached to all nations and the end will come." Mt.24:14. The six seal prologue of Revelation is an amplification of Jesus Olivet Discourse, in Mt.24:4-31, which in and of itself, is an amplification of Dan.9:27.

 

Quasar93

 

[n2thelight]

On 12/29/2017 at 8:13 AM, Spock said:

While they may now both we sucking off the same root (ROM 11), and while the two are now one in Christ, they are still two distinct bodies. Every time you see the word Israel in the NT it means the Nation of Israel (physical Jews). It does not mean the Church or the believing Christians.  In addition, all Israel (physical Jews) will be saved when Christ returns. And of course all those eternal promises he made to Abraham (father of the Jews) will be fulfilled when he returns.

1 Cor 10:32 says it all...do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks, or the Church of God.....”

Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Now does this say "go to the Jews", or "Go to Judah"? No. It says "Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel". The sons of Judah know where they are, and who they are; there is nothing lost about them. In fact, when these Jews came to Jesus in their self-righteous attitude, they came to trick Him up, because of this He would answer their questions in parables to keep the kingdom message a mystery from them. Jesus didn't even imply that the disciples should go to the House of Judah.

If you are lost, it means that that person doesn't know who they are. They are not in Jerusalem anymore, but gone to another area completely, and lost their identity to themselves. As a Christian, it should be your priority to learn who these lost "House of Israel" are, or you will not be able to rightly divide the Word of truth. To understand the parables that Jesus Christ taught you need to understand the parable of the sower concerning the children of the good and the bad; which is the prime root to the "key of David". This topic we will discuss in detail in Matthew 13.

This is a very simple message, but it is a total mystery to much of the church world today, and they attach the Jews, good and bad, as the lost sheep of the House of Israel. God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and that message continues right to today. So how do you prepare yourself to go out and plant the seed of the word of God, when the simplest parts of God's mystery are over looked?