Faith without works is Dead

[Bro.Tan]

11 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

"This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." - John 15:12

"You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." - John 15:14

"These things I command you, that you love one another." - John 15:17

 

Now what is love? Let us not be deceived and thinking that when we see someone walking in darkness we just leave that person in the darkness and do nothing about it... To love is to tell the truth. And God's Word is truth.

 

By your posts, it sounds like you are so focused in fulfulling the law by yourself that you forget (or don't know) that Jesus did it for you.

"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!
For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." - Galatians 2:17-21

 

"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified." - 2 Corinthians 13:5

 

It amazes me on how such a simple topic as "faith without works is dead" has turned in more than 700 posts long debate. Really.

First of all God had Peter to clearly warn you about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning, you can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on one or two verse out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

I explain Galatians 2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The works of the law Paul is talking about here is the animal sacrificial law. Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Paul said in Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Look at what else Paul said in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy. (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.   Romans 6:23   For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. You have read all of Paul writing and get understanding.

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

14 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

No one has jumped on you.  No one has called you names.  This is yet another tactic to deflect attention off yourself and hope we forget the original question.  I will not forget the question.

I know how the Sabbath is supposed to be kept according to biblical guidelines.  I've been reading the Bible for over 50 years.  That is how I know that however you were to answer the question, if you ever actually did, which you will not, that whatever you told me, you would not be keeping the Sabbath according to the biblical dictates because it is impossible to do so today.  That is the reason you will not answer the question.  Not because we don't want to learn about the Sabbath.  We already know about it, so that could not be the reason.  You have not proven that Paul kept the Sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ.  All you know, for sure is that he taught at the Synagogue, so that could not be the reason either.  We know that the Church worshiping on Sunday did not originate as some pagan practice, and the church has never viewed it as the Sabbath in the first place, so that cannot be the reasons either.  There is a specific reason you will not answer and I know exactly what it is and I have already told you the reason.  If you answer it, however you answer it, you will invalidate your entire premise.  You know that you do not actually keep the Sabbath beyond doing something you think you should be doing on a certain day. That is not keeping the Sabbath.  I already know you will not answer the question.  I knew that when I first asked it.  I just want other posters to see for themselves that you came here professing to teach us something but you don't answer pointed questions that you do not like.  When someone sincerely wants to teach, and they are asked questions, they simply answer them.  They do not dance in circles, or make excuses, or accuse the people asking of bad behavior they never engaged in to avoid having to answer the question.  But this is what you do every time the subject is brought up.  This is not lost on people and they know exactly why you are doing it.

 

It's like a person with a full bucket of water, and they asking a person to pour fresh water in their full bucket water, how do you think that's possible or make sense. They person must empty a good portion of the water in the bucket, before new water can be pour in. 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

On 9/17/2017 at 9:22 PM, frienduff thaylorde said:

Just don't CONDEMN others about days meats and drinks.  And I don't mean DRUNKENESS. As I said , I constantly remind others about the KEEPING of CHRIST , HIS SAYINGS.

not all though realize all meats are clean unto us.  those I don't even argue with .  I just eat what they eat and praise the LORD while doing it.

Man wants to hold one day above another , I will celebrate it with him.   If he sees every day the same , me too.

Meats and drinks don't defile the temple.  It aint what goes in ya that defiles ya, its what comes from the heart, from insdie the man that defiles the man.

And as cobalt once said........HOW on earth would we keep the Sabbath according to the law.   explain that .

however if you want to hold the fri sat as a honored day to GOD..........TRY INVITING others to praise GOd with you on this day.  But condemn none for meats , drinks , days .

PS.   drunkenness is sin , so yeah I aint promoting that .    Just eat what is set before you.   IF you KNOW it was sacrified unto IDOLS.  DONT .  how bout that.

As for baptism,  I WAS LED big time to do it.   But I was still saved long before I DID.   so I do truly believe we should do it.  IF the early church

was big on it. AND THEY WERE.   SO should we be.   but whoever preaches it as a necessity to be saved.  NO.   but should we . A HUGE YES.   be blessed.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 11: 43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. 44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 45 For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. You can read the whole chapter on your own from the begining, but lets see Paul touch on this a little in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a rundown on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness.

Paul said in  1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.   1 Peter 1:16   Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 

 

 

[Wayne222]

6 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 11: 43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. 44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 45 For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. You can read the whole chapter on your own from the begining, but lets see Paul touch on this a little in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a rundown on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness.

Paul said in  1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.   1 Peter 1:16   Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 

 

 

The old covenant is passed away. Now we have a new covenant.  The laws under the old don't apply to us. We are under Christ as our law.

[Reinitin]

11 hours ago, Yowm said:

I've read Romans over 50 times especially chaps 1-11. 

Romans 6 is not speaking of water baptism but being 'immersed' (baptized) spiritually into Christ's death and resurrection. The word water is never mentioned in all of Romans.

I realize that the argument on those verses swing way right for some god aweful regeneration doctrin. But as you pointed out their is also a far left swing that gives men the contradiction of then coming up with a doctrin to ignore and change the message Jesus sent us from heaven. I error on the side of caution because we are discussing eternal consiquences in an age of great deceptions.

3rd view his first statement. His Topic is sanctification. He is pointing the church to their outward action of their baptism because it was a outward witness of the seal of membership into Christ. So then paul uses the water baptism they had partisipated in to reveal the Spiritual work Done by Christ. I know that to enter in to Christ we caĺl on Him. I also know sanctification takes place by baptism in the Holy Spirt. But I also know Jesus said "be baptised and the practice of that outwardly is baptism. So why teach people "you do not have to do something Jesus said for us to do?" and Why would we not tell people that we can give a witness through water baptism? 

So now i agree to disagree with you. because I believe Paul was speaking to people who had in faith been baptised and were baptising in water, But were having a issue on how to walk out so great a salvation 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

The Lord's supper is more then a symbol. The Lord is there in the elements.

Stop with the sick RC heresy!!   It is a horrific demonic CANNIBALISTIC damnable practice of the harlot church! WITCHCRAFT!!! WITCHCRAFT!!!

 The demon filled eucharist that catholics  so foolishly take part in is called TRANSUBSTANTIATON. Catholics LITERALLY think they are eating Jesus' body and drinking his blood.  This is of the DEVIL. It is EVIL.

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Really? where did you read that its an ordinance? 

Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Looks pretty much like he commanded to me. The word used for baptism is water immersion. Doesn't look like there is a gospel change till the end of the age either.

 

Rogue "christians"  conjure up all kinds of false interpretations  . The consequences are eternal. 

 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Im sorry your so afraid. If people believe the gospel and Christ is in you baptism will be a Joy and so will Christ doing good works through you.

If baptism is a huge issue I guess you just walk away the message. who knows (I don't) what the Lord will do in judgment towards those who change or ignore the gospel. How the Lord judges and how he records in his heavenly books only the Lord knows and sees what we don't see. It doesn't change the fact baptism is a part of the gospel.

It diesn't change the Lords prophetic glimpses in to his judgment. "Lord, Lord when did we see you in prison, with out cliths, thirsty and hungry? the Lord says "what you did not do for one of these my brethern you did not do for me. Depart from me you workers of iniquity" (look it up mathew this is a lisa paraphrase from memory)

If you use the prophetic rules of translation. 

prison- captivity in sin.

coat- good works accredited and asigned by God.

thirsty-living water to drink.

hungry-bread of life to eat. 

The 4 components God offers to us through the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

More vain babblings and no scripture. That it what you have mostly done this whole thread.  

You pervert the atonement and add works  . You may need to start at square one. If our words define what we think? .....

The ABC’s Of Salvation

A. Christ DIED for you – Romans 5:8
B. Christ PAID your sins in Full – 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:24
C. BELIEVE(Trust In Completely) on Christ ALONE for salvation – John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8,9, 1 Cor. 15:1-4
Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand! Matthew 4:17

“For the wages of sin is death(Eternal Torment In Hell & The Lake of Fire); But the Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ Our Lord”. Romans 6:23

IT IS THAT SIMPLE – THE GOSPEL TRUTH

 

 

 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Wrong either your saved by the cross or not

We are not saved by a cross! We are saved by Christ shed blood that atoned for our sins which btw has absolutely nothing to do what he was saying.

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Blueyedjewel said:

 

Rogue "christians"  conjure up all kinds of false interpretations  . The consequences are eternal. 

 

yes, be very careful when you are counseling someone " you do not have to participate in an outward witness of the inner working of Gods salvation that Jesus established to be paracticed till the end of the age.

You have no idea why He established it and if it is only so we as falable people can forget we were once dead in tresspass and sin but when we believed, we were barried with Christ washed of our sins and resurected to life a new creation.

Whether it be a mercy to us in the flesh, a mental guard against decieved people deciving, or a life touch point where the Holy Spirit turns us in understanding from recievers of Salvation to messangers of Salvation.

I can not fathom why anyone would pervert scripture to teach something in direct opposition to the message from heaven of a spiritual work being yoked to a physical practice established both in heaven and on earth both by Jesus.

He didn't have to get baptised in water either. He had no sin But he did get baotised in water didn't he?

Father used Our Lords baptism as a sign to John prophetically as an identification of His Son who pleased him. So we know straight up it pleases God.

We know from ephesisians 2 We are saved by grace through faith and not by works lest any man boast to do good works God established for us (Lisa paraphrase read it). w

What is a good work? things  we do that please the Lord? How selfish, self absorbed, self centered must one be to teach and spread tgat attitude When Jesus was brutally beaten, Crucified, He who had no sin carried the wrath of God our burden of sin in his own body. Was laid in a grave 3 days then was resurected to share eternal life with us who did not achieve it or deserve it. Now he is seated in heaven at the right hand of the father making intercession for us. And we teach "He did it all", "you don't have to do anything" and rob Him of the moment in our pitiful existance He can look down on us with a Smile and say "this is my child i am pleased they are doing as I taught them".

We love because he loved us first.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Reinitin