The Days of Noah and Lot

[Endtime_Survivors]

 

Hi all,

Here's another video, this one on the Days of Noah and Lot. It's a 6 minute animated feature which explores Jesus' comments from Luke 17:26-30. I look forward to hearing what others think and some positive discussion about this issues.

[OakWood]

So what this video is saying, unless I am mistaken, is that Jesus was criticising people for planting seeds, getting married, eating and drinking etc. and has cleverly ruled out homosexuality, genetic manipulation, Atheism etc.

When Jesus said it would be like in the days of Noah, he means that people would be going about their every day lives unsuspectingly. He wasn't criticising them for doing that, as this video suggests. He was merely pointing out that they would be unaware of what was about to happen to them.

This video has a whiff of Political Correctness and socialist propaganda about it.

[other one]

I'm not so sure Oakwood.  When you look at the description of society in other end time scripture it pretty well describes what 1Enoch describes before the flood.

[OakWood]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

I'm not so sure Oakwood.  When you look at the description of society in other end time scripture it pretty well describes what 1Enoch describes before the flood.

I does, you're right and I'm not denying it, but this video is suggesting that people are to be punished for such things. Note how it rules out Atheism, homosexuality and so on.... as a cause of God's wrath and makes out that God is punishing people for getting married and so on....

[other one]

I only watched the first 20 seconds of the video.... so I couldn't speak on that...

 

[Jayne]

Well, I've watched this video twice and I can't wrap my head around the creator's faulty exegesis.  I wish this person had not disabled comments on Youtube from the video.  OP - is this your video or are you just sharing what you found?

Here's the actual scriptures presented and commentated upon and that's all I can deal with - what does the Bible ACTUALLY say.

Citation #1 - Luke 17:26-29

²⁶ Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. ²⁷ They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. ²⁸ Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, ²⁹ but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— ³⁰ so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Where, WHERE, does it say that Jesus is condemning these people for getting married and farming and buying/selling and eating and drinking?  Where does it say he has a "beef" with this as the author of this video describe the video on Youtube.  It doesn't.  Where does it say that Jesus considers these things to be just as sinful as homosexuality and atheism?  It doesn't.

But that's what the author of the video is saying.

Jesus is saying that just like in days of old people- not knowing destruction was coming - just went about life as business as usual.  Destruction came without warning and their lives were wiped out.  When the Son of Man is revealed (I won't get into what that means - that's another thread) people will again be taken by surprise - (never taking heed of any Biblical signs).

 

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Citation #2 - Luke 14:16-24

¹⁵ When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!” ¹⁶ But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. ¹⁷ And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant^[c] to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ ¹⁸ But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’ ¹⁹ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ ²⁰ And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ ²¹ So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ ²² And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ ²³ And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. ²⁴ For I tell you,^[d] none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

Again, this is NOT Jesus condemning agricultural jobs, animal husbandry, marriage, or any other endeavor.  It's not even Jesus claiming that we shouldn't put these things ahead of him.  This has NOTHING to do with daily living.

This is Jesus giving a metaphorical picture to the Jews of his day of their rejection of him with terribly pathetic excuses and his going to the Gentiles (the "unclean", the "poor, crippled, blind, and lame")

Someone brought this to my attention once - look at the excuses:  A man bought property literally "site" unseen.  Another bought oxen sight unseen.  And another man says that now that he is married, he can't come.  If these two men already bought property and oxen without looking at it first - why should they care if they made a quality purchase or not.  It's just an excuse not to come to the "Master".  And what prevents married people from going out to parties?  The married man does not WANT to come.

These people don't WANT the free gift of the banquet (salvation).

This parable is about the Jewish people, specifically the religious elite,  who SHOULD have thrown themselves at Jesus' feet in gratitude for the "banquet" but instead dismissed his free gift of grace.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Jayne

[Endtime_Survivors]

5 hours ago, OakWood said:

So what this video is saying, unless I am mistaken, is that Jesus was criticising people for planting seeds, getting married, eating and drinking etc.

Yeah, you're mistaken.

5 hours ago, OakWood said:

and has cleverly ruled out homosexuality, genetic manipulation, Atheism etc.

Nah, the video suggests that it's easy to become self righteous about issues like sex sins and atheism while ignoring our own sins.

5 hours ago, OakWood said:

When Jesus said it would be like in the days of Noah, he means that people would be going about their every day lives unsuspectingly.

Unsuspecting....of what?

5 hours ago, OakWood said:

He wasn't criticising them for doing that, as this video suggests. He was merely pointing out that they would be unaware of what was about to happen to them.

The question is, why were they unaware? If people ignore the voice of God because they've become distracted by the cares of this world, then, yeah,  they probably will be punished.  I'm not sure why you seem to feel so offended by that concept.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Endtime_Survivors
grammar

[Endtime_Survivors]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Well, I've watched this video twice

Thanks for that.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

is this your video or are you just sharing what you found?

It's a team production of which I am a part.

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Where, WHERE, does it say that Jesus is condemning these people for getting married and farming and buying/selling and eating and drinking?

Neither the scripture nor the video suggests this.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Where does it say that Jesus considers these things to be just as sinful as homosexuality and atheism?  It doesn't.

The context is that people had put these things before God (i.e. they had become distracted by the cares of the world).  Anything becomes sinful if it comes between us and our creator, which Ican include the things we take for granted like the normal, everyday activities of life.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Jesus is saying that just like in days of old people- not knowing destruction was coming - just went about life as business as usual. 

Yes, "business as usual" is a good way to describe the point Jesus was making about the cares of life.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Destruction came without warning and their lives were wiped out.

Apparently, Noah was building the ark for more than a hundred years? And Abraham successfully haggled God down from 50 righteous people to something like 5 or 10 (i.e. if he could find even 5 or 10 righteous people then God would not destroy the cities).  They had plenty of warning, but they were too busy with the cares of life to care about the warnings. This is why Jesus said that he'd come like a thief, not because he's a sneaky guy, but because people would be distracted just like they were in the days of Noah and Lot.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

When the Son of Man is revealed (I won't get into what that means - that's another thread) people will again be taken by surprise - (never taking heed of any Biblical signs).

I think we have agreement on this.  The question is, why will they not take heed?  If there are signs and warnings, why will they still be taken by surprise?

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

Again, this is NOT Jesus condemning agricultural jobs, animal husbandry, marriage, or any other endeavor.

And neither is this what the video suggests.  The context is one of people putting these things before God.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

It's not even Jesus claiming that we shouldn't put these things ahead of him.

That is exactly the lesson. Nothing, not even food and clothing, family, or our own lives, should come between us and God.

 

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

This is Jesus giving a metaphorical picture to the Jews of his day of their rejection of him with terribly pathetic excuses and his going to the Gentiles (the "unclean", the "poor, crippled, blind, and lame")

How do you decide which teachings are for the Jews and which teachings are for "disciples" of Jesus?  At the end of Matthew Jesus tells his disciples to go into all the world teaching their followers to obey the same things Jesus taught them, which, of course, would include the teaching to go out and teach others to do the same and so on and so forth.

When Jesus says, "love God and love your neighbor" was he only talking to the Jews, or was he talking to any would-be follower?  Is it only the Jews who have problems with pathetic excuses or only the Jews who reject Jesus?  No, that makes no sense at all.  Jesus' teachings are for Jesus' followers, whether Jew, gentile, or other.

2 hours ago, Jayne said:

Someone brought this to my attention once - look at the excuses:  A man bought property literally "site" unseen.  Another bought oxen sight unseen.  And another man says that now that he is married, he can't come.  If these two men already bought property and oxen without looking at it first - why should they care if they made a quality purchase or not.

It's hard for me to believe you think the lesson of this parable is to make better quality purchases rather than cultivating a willingness to go when God says, "go". We see this parable from verrrry different perspectives. Whether they were making bad business deals or not, the lesson of the parable is that they did not listen to God when he called.

2 hours ago, Jayne said:

These people don't WANT the free gift of the banquet (salvation).

Agreed, and the reason Jesus gave for them rejecting the gift was that they were too busy with the cares of this life.  They weren't atheists.  They weren't sexual perverts.  They were just too busy.

2 hours ago, Jayne said:

This parable is about the Jewish people, specifically the religious elite,  who SHOULD have thrown themselves at Jesus' feet in gratitude for the "banquet" but instead dismissed his free gift of grace.

This logic comes across as quite confusing.  Shouldn't we all be throwing ourselves at Jesus' feet in gratitude for the banquet and gift of free grace?  Or, is it only Jews who are capable of rejecting their messiah?  We Christians are not like the Jews?  Jesus' teachings about putting God first don't apply to us?

I really don't want to misrepresent what you're saying so please do feel free to clarify your position if I've got it wrong, but this really does sound like what you're saying.

[OakWood]

10 hours ago, Endtime_Survivors said:

Yeah, you're mistaken.

Nah, the video suggests that it's easy to become self righteous about issues like sex sins and atheism while ignoring our own sins.

Unsuspecting....of what?

The question is, why were they unaware? If people ignore the voice of God because they've become distracted by the cares of this world, then, yeah,  they probably will be punished.  I'm not sure why you seem to feel so offended by that concept.

 

 

No. You gave the impression that it wasn't about God punishing people for the sins of the World such as homosexuality, Atheism etc. but because they hadn't got time for God. Here's some info for you - Christians do have time for God, Atheists and homosexuals don't.

Why are people unaware? Because they don't believe in God and they don't believe in scripture. Atheists would definitely fit in this category don't you think?

[Endtime_Survivors]

1 minute ago, OakWood said:

Atheists would definitely fit in this category don't you think?

Probably. But Jesus had a problem with people getting self righteous about the rather obvious sins (like sexual sins or atheism) while ignoring their own sins (like being too busy for God).  This is the kind of luke-warmness that Jesus said makes God sick; people who say they believe in God, but who are too busy to listen to him.   When the atheists look at that kind of example, what reason do they have to think this God is worth believing in when his own followers are too busy to care?   What's more, why should the atheist take a Christian seriously about genuine problems like sexual fornication or atheism when the Christian himself is lost in the cares of this world, like materialism and greed?

Sexual sin is a genuine problem, but consider the example of the pharisees who brought the adulterous woman to him.  The woman was plainly guilty. There was no doubt or dispute about that.  And yet, Jesus instead rebuked the pharisees.   Why? Wasn't it because they were being self-righteous toward the woman?  They were quite ready to see her die for her sin, but they had little or no regard for their own sins, and that's because they had come to see their own sins as normal while finding it easy to jump on the obvious sins like fornication. 

We need to be able to recognize genuine sins like fornication and atheism, but all our efforts to do so will only come across as hollow, shallow, and self righteous until we Christians can sort out our own problems regarding the "cares of this world".   Even in your response you talk about "sins of the world" as though putting a business, relationship, or even food and clothing before God is not a "sin of the world". 

If those things are not sins of the world, then what kind of sins are they?