Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[Marilyn C]

So true Judith,

 

And good to see another woman here in this section.

 

Marilyn.

[Salty]

 

Man, what a confused mess that doctrine of men is.

 

You're right - men have caused confusion  over God's word.  It really makes it difficult for new-comers -

doesn't it?

 

One important reminder we have in God's word is to "rightly divide the word of truth".   By that we

should be careful not to establish doctrines upon one or two scripture verses.

 

When the foundation isn't laid correctly, all sorts of wrong doctrines begin to appear.

 

As I stated before, I see that understanding the divisions of Israel and the Church to be necessary

in order to obtain a correct understanding of end time events - especially with the doctrines of

the Rapture and Tribulation.

 

Blessing,

 

Judith

 

 

I don't see any such division necessary, because God's Word does not provide any such evidence, thus doing the division that the Pre-trib Rapture theory creates is not necessary since our Heavenly Father and His Son didn't do it.

 

As I have shown in other posts here on the subject, with many Scriptures that have direct statements about our Lord Jesus' second coming and our gathering after the tribulation, and not just metaphorical comparisons, that shows that I am 'rightly dividing' God's Word according to Apostle Paul's command to Timothy. The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture contain direct statements from our Lord Jesus that His coming and our gathering is after the tribulation, likewise does Paul's account in 2 Thessalonians 2. Two or more witnesses are required to establish in His Word. Thus the foundation is laid in God's Word, as our Lord Jesus and His Apostles laid that foundation. So why do those on the Pre-trib Rapture theory still choose to deny it?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

It`s over 100 degrees here today & the poor airconditioner at my friend`s place is battling. But I`m here now to answer all your questions with a nice glass of wine.

 

The scriptures from the gospels that you use to show the Lord`s return all refer to Israel & the nations. The Lord never talked to Israel about the Body of Christ & its future, He only talked to Israel about their future.

 

Now why is Christ building the Body of Christ when all He could have done was continue to save Gentiles along with the Jews as He done previously? If we all end up the same, then why go & create a `Body of Christ?`

 

 

Marilyn.

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

It`s over 100 degrees here today & the poor airconditioner at my friend`s place is battling. But I`m here now to answer all your questions with a nice glass of wine.

 

The scriptures from the gospels that you use to show the Lord`s return all refer to Israel & the nations. The Lord never talked to Israel about the Body of Christ & its future, He only talked to Israel about their future.

 

 

Salty:  I realize what you're saying there is what the Pre-trib Rapture school teaches, but it is not accurate per those Scriptures by our Lord Jesus to His disciples upon the Mount of Olivet.

 

Both the events Paul covered in 1 Thess.4 of Christ gathering His Church of the "asleep" saints, and His saints still alive on earth, are covered in those two Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 examples. One is about the saints gathered from one end of heaven to the other, and the other one is about His saints gathered from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

Furthermore, the events our Lord Jesus was giving in Matt.24 and Mark 13 are the events He also covered through Apostle John with the Seals of Revelation 6. And we know... His Revelation was given through John to His Church.

 

Your other point about our Lord Jesus not speaking to the Jews about His Church involving Gentile believers is irrelevant, because He was speaking directly... to His disciples and Apostles there on the Mount of Olives, which was the early foundation of His Church, Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:19-22).

 

 

 

Now why is Christ building the Body of Christ when all He could have done was continue to save Gentiles along with the Jews as He done previously? If we all end up the same, then why go & create a `Body of Christ?`

 

Salty:  Nowhere in Paul's Epistles did he preach any such separation of believers of the seed of Israel and believers of the Gentiles as Christ's Body. The only difference with the time of Christ's Olivet Discourse with His disciples was that His rejection upon the cross had then yet to be fulfilled in order for The Gospel to then go to the Gentiles.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

I believe that the majority of what Zechariah describes are symbolic references. The reason I see this as symbolic is quite simple, first, because this chapter is full of symbolism, and second, following Jesus these types of sacrifices were useless.

Hi wingnut,

 

Now I have read all your notes but will just reply to this point for now.

 

What symbols do you see in this passage in Zech. 14?

Also, where does God indicate that this passage is symbolic? 

 

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

The Gentiles could come into the blessing of knowing God before the Body of Christ. So why the `Body of Christ` now?

 

Marilyn.

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

The Gentiles could come into the blessing of knowing God before the Body of Christ. So why the `Body of Christ` now?

 

Marilyn.

 

God gave the revelation in Isaiah that believing Gentiles would be included in His Plan of Salvation.

[Judith]

 

Hi Salty,

 

It`s over 100 degrees here today & the poor airconditioner at my friend`s place is battling. But I`m here now to answer all your questions with a nice glass of wine.

 

The scriptures from the gospels that you use to show the Lord`s return all refer to Israel & the nations. The Lord never talked to Israel about the Body of Christ & its future, He only talked to Israel about their future.

 

Now why is Christ building the Body of Christ when all He could have done was continue to save Gentiles along with the Jews as He done previously? If we all end up the same, then why go & create a `Body of Christ?`

 

 

Marilyn.

 

Excellent point Marilyn. As I said before, the appointed times pertains to Israel, Gentiles, and the Church (the Body of Christ).

The distinction between the two comings of Jesus is taught in the Bible. The 2nd coming

and the establishment of His Kingdom was known prior to when the Church was established.

Therefore, Jesus is speaking of His coming to establish the Kingdom whereas the Rapture

is a mystery that wasn't known until the Apostle Paul revealed the catching away of the

Body of Christ. Recall Paul's words......."I show you a mystery". There was no mystery

regarding the 2nd coming which was well documented in the O.T.

Blessings,

Judith

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

However the gentiles could come in to Israel`s blessing prior to the Body of Christ. You still have not shown what purpose Christ has for building His Body.

 

Marilyn.

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

However the gentiles could come in to Israel`s blessing prior to the Body of Christ. You still have not shown what purpose Christ has for building His Body.

 

Marilyn.

 

You have not shown Scripture evidence to back up man's theory of a pre-trib rapture, but instead are leaving the main topic of this thread.

 

I provided you with Biblical proof against that theory of man by what our Lord Jesus showed us in Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 which aligns with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 and 2 Thess.2. That's what you need to address.