Rapture

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Last Daze

I thought your last paragraph was a description of a post trib view.

I have been prepared since I became a believer. So what's new. You have given me no insight of why we must go through these trials which the unsaved must go through.  How long have these 10 virgins been waiting. Are you ready to go now.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I've addressed this in numerous other posts, if you're truly interested.  My guess is that you're not.  Not going to rehash it again.  I'm glad you're ready.  I hope others are as well when the pre-trib fails them.

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

Another example of CONFUSING the coming of Christ FOR His saints with the coming of Christ WITH His saints. The elect mentioned in Matthew 24 are NOT the Church but redeemed Jews. When Christ comes for His saints, He comes personally and takes them to Heaven personally.  When Christ comes with His saints, He sends angels to gather the elect Jews to Israel.  Big difference.

You are the one who is confused, Ezra. He can't come WITH his saints, his eklektos/elect/chosen, unless he had already come FOR his saints.

When Jesus comes in the clouds FOR his elect, he will have already received kingship authority, having sat both upon his throne and the throne of the Father. He will "send out HIS angels" to do his bidding, HIS servants, like any king would. No scripture says he will "personally" take up each of his elect. This is just another in a long, long list of unsubstantiated pre-trib claims. No scriptural substantiation, just claims.

When Jesus descends to the Mount of Olives, the Jews will already be there in Jerusalem. He will not need to gather them; quite the opposite, in fact:

Zech. 14:2 For I will gather all the nations [not, all the elect of Israel] to battle against Jerusalem... Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. ... 4 And in that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.

 

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I've addressed this in numerous other posts, if you're truly interested.  My guess is that you're not.  Not going to rehash it again.  I'm glad you're ready.  I hope others are as well when the pre-trib fails them.

Last Daze

What benefit do you receive with a post-trib rapture.  For you never make to the Fathers House where Jesus now resides as Scripture says we will go.  For once Christ sets His feet on the Mt of Olives He rules on this earth with a rod of iron, with his Saints for 1000 years.  What will you accomplish by going through the last 7 years that you have not already accomplished in Christ Jesus. The 70th Week will begin with tribulation saints either being killed or being sent into captivity. 

You should do a search on what going into captivity may entail.  Example, you go to Africa, your wife goes to India, your children go to Russia or South America.  If you have grandchildren, they may go to China.  Some become sex slaves.  You may or may not be clad (wear clothes), one will be humiliated beyond reproach.  You may eat out of the same troth  as the pigs do.  One wrists and feet will bound.  Look at the slave trade out of Africa.  For this is what these tribulation saints will most likely go through.  So this is what you hope for.  You will get this and more with a mid or post trib Rapture position.  All I can say is happy sailing.  Happy trails to you.

Yet, Rev 3:10 is our encouragement; - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.  For this is the 70th Week, but more so of the last 1/2 of the Week.  So if you are living on this earth at this time, you will be tested by these judgments.  No escape.  And they repented not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[FresnoJoe]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2015‎ ‎1‎:‎18‎:‎39‎, Ezra said:

The Rapture could take place at any time. The apostolic churches were taught to be ready for Christ coming for His saints at any time. Those who are Christ's should be ready at all times, since that is exactly what Scripture tells us to do:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Beloved, Watch Jerusalem

In the whole land- the Lord's declaration- two-thirds will be cut off and die, but a third will be left in it.

I will put this third through the fire; I will refine them as silver is refined and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say: They are My people, and they will say: The Lord is our God." Zechariah 13:8-9  (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

And The Battle 

"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you. Isaiah 43:2 (New American Standard Bible)

For Zion

I will go back to my place until they admit that they are guilty. Then they will search for me. In their distress they will eagerly look for me." Hosea 5:15 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

With

those who are left in Israel;
they shall do no injustice
and speak no lies,
nor shall there be found in their mouth
a deceitful tongue.
For they shall graze and lie down,
and none shall make them afraid.”

Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion;
shout, O Israel!
Rejoice and exult with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!

The Lord has taken away the judgments against you;
he has cleared away your enemies.
The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst;
you shall never again fear evil.

On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Fear not, O Zion;
let not your hands grow weak.

The Lord your God is in your midst,
a mighty one who will save;
he will rejoice over you with gladness;
he will quiet you by his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing. Zephaniah 3:13-17 (English Standard Version)

A Shout

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (King James Version)

As He Comes Back

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11 (New International Version)

Down Only Once Again

Then I will return to my place until they admit their guilt and turn to me. For as soon as trouble comes, they will earnestly search for me." Hosea 5:15 (New Living Translation)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Last Daze]

14 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Last Daze

What benefit do you receive with a post-trib rapture.  For you never make to the Fathers House where Jesus now resides as Scripture says we will go.  For once Christ sets His feet on the Mt of Olives He rules on this earth with a rod of iron, with his Saints for 1000 years.  What will you accomplish by going through the last 7 years that you have not already accomplished in Christ Jesus. The 70th Week will begin with tribulation saints either being killed or being sent into captivity. 

You should do a search on what going into captivity may entail.  Example, you go to Africa, your wife goes to India, your children go to Russia or South America.  If you have grandchildren, they may go to China.  Some become sex slaves.  You may or may not be clad (wear clothes), one will be humiliated beyond reproach.  You may eat out of the same troth  as the pigs do.  One wrists and feet will bound.  Look at the slave trade out of Africa.  For this is what these tribulation saints will most likely go through.  So this is what you hope for.  You will get this and more with a mid or post trib Rapture position.  All I can say is happy sailing.  Happy trails to you.

Yet, Rev 3:10 is our encouragement; - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.  For this is the 70th Week, but more so of the last 1/2 of the Week.  So if you are living on this earth at this time, you will be tested by these judgments.  No escape.  And they repented not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I find it very telling how that pre-tribbers most always see post-tribbers as "wanting" or "hoping" to go through the great tribulation.  They do so because it's the filter that they themselves use when attempting to understand prophecy.  They desperately want the pre-trib rapture to be true so they will disregard dialectic in favor of rhetoric.  It's similar to the mindset of an evolutionist who will maintain the evolution narrative against all odds because they don't like the alternative.

What you and I "hope for" is irrelevant.  It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on how prophecy will be fulfilled.  Prophecy will be fulfilled according to what is written in God's word and we would do well to set aside our biases and look at it objectively.  God will give us grace to endure whatever might come our way.  There's nothing to fear.

Concerning Rev 3:10, it's quite presumptuous to assume that it is speaking of the rapture.  And what of the other six churches?  No escape?  No repentance?

But feel free to believe whatever you want, for whatever reasons seem good to you.  Ultimately, it is our faith that will make the difference, not our understanding of how prophecy might happen.  Those who walk in the truth will discern what is happening.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’.  Mark 13:37

 

[WilliamL]

Last Daze, well and rationally spoken, as usual.

From the way things are now rapidly degenerating in Syria -- Iran has now joined the U.S., Israel, the Brits, the French, the Russians, the Jordanians, and perhaps still one or more of the Gulf States in sending warplanes over that fated land -- it seems we may soon have a resolution as to whether the Lord's coming for his elect is pre-wrath/post-trib, or is pre-trib.

Is. 17:1 Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap. ... 3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim... 4 And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean. ... 9 In that day shall his strong cities be like forsaken places...and there shall be desolation, 10 because you have forgotten the God of your salvation, and have not been mindful of the rock of your strength...

How long will Damascus survive what is now taking place in Syria? That city's destruction -- and significant destruction in it has already occurred -- will mark the time when "there shall be desolation" among the lands of Ephraim and Jacob. Whether or not one believes the Great Tribulation refers to Israel alone or also to the Church, when such desolations begin right around the time Damascus is destroyed, there will be no doubt that the Trib has commenced. This will be the litmus test.

[MorningGlory]

On 12/4/2015, 2:41:24, Last Daze said:

I see this as an important issue as well.  People tend to only prepare for what they expect to encounter.  It's just common sense and human nature.

Seeing pre-trib as the only possibility is dangerous for obvious reasons.  I certainly hope that those who push pre-trib don't do so to the exclusion of its potential failure.  That would be irresponsible.

Five were wise.  Five were foolish.  The wise were better prepared.

Regardless of whether we are Pre, Mid or Post Trib there is really only one preparation we can make; we have to be right with God and be ready. 

[MorningGlory]

22 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You are the one who is confused, Ezra. He can't come WITH his saints, his eklektos/elect/chosen, unless he had already come FOR his saints.

When Jesus comes in the clouds FOR his elect, he will have already received kingship authority, having sat both upon his throne and the throne of the Father. He will "send out HIS angels" to do his bidding, HIS servants, like any king would. No scripture says he will "personally" take up each of his elect. This is just another in a long, long list of unsubstantiated pre-trib claims. No scriptural substantiation, just claims.

When Jesus descends to the Mount of Olives, the Jews will already be there in Jerusalem. He will not need to gather them; quite the opposite, in fact:

Zech. 14:2 For I will gather all the nations [not, all the elect of Israel] to battle against Jerusalem... Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. ... 4 And in that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.

 

This is strictly your OPINION except for the Scripture quote; you have no special knowledge about the chain of events.  Regardless of when the elect is raptured, pride isn't going to get any of us into their number. 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

Regardless of whether we are Pre, Mid or Post Trib there is really only one preparation we can make; we have to be right with God and be ready. 

Ready for what? I guess is the obvious question.  It helps to know what to prepare for.  Wouldn't you agree?  What exactly is it about Christ's return that we are to be ready for?  There's a special emphasis concerning that event.  Would God stress the importance of being ready and alert and not tell us what to expect? 

[Ezra]

7 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Ready for what? I guess is the obvious question.  

And the answer is equally obvious. Ready to move from earth to Heaven in an instant. And for those who would not believe the Gospel and receive Christ, a very dismal future.  For Christians it means be ready to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and give account.  All Christians are stewards (time, money, opportunities, lives) and there will either be good stewards or bad stewards. There will also be rewards and loss of rewards. Our stewardship on earth will have eternal consequences, something which many Christians may not even realize or think about.