Why is Eternal Life a Free Gift?

[hmbld]

On 2/10/2016 at 4:40 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

However, God, and God alone, can fix that. We are not drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue. We are already dead, stuck in the mud at the bottom, and it is God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and breathes life into us.

Then, we are no longer deaf, no longer blind, we can begin to understand the stings of God, and hear His voice. Then, we are given a new heart, a heart of flesh, instead of stone. Then we are given freedom, and can resist sin (1 Cor 10:13) and we pursue a life of righteousness, as we are being conformed to the image of His Son. Then, we have crossed over, from death, to life.

Very good explanation, clear, easy to read, thank you.  Based on my understanding of scripture, I agree with the first paragraph above, for there are verses supporting how none seek God, but God reaches down to us, for even the heavens declare His glory, etc.  My question, if I can get my wording correct, do you see anything happening between these two paragraphs that you wrote and I picked out here above.  Are you saying God only reaches down for those to whom He gives a new heart to?  Or does God reach down, or call to all and give us free will to accept or reject Him?  Now, you may not wish to answer directly, and I may not even want you too.  Someone I know has plainly stated that God has not chosen them, and I simply can't wrap my head around that other than this person refuses perhaps to repent.  I don't know.  I believe God desires all to come to Him, now is the time, if a person desires to know God, repents and seeks, they will find Him.  God does not turn His back on anyone, eternal life is a free gift.  I don't know why, but all day I've been seeing this wide road with nothing but darkness, and the narrow road simply as light, and God sets them before us to choose, not that we can find the narrow road on our own, but He reveals it to us, and even though it only takes one small step in faith to reach this narrow road, it is an incredibly hard step, and God beckons us with "now is the time".  And I am left with, is this just my thoughts?  Is any of this unbiblical?

[thereselittleflower]

On 2/10/2016 at 4:40 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Well just a little.

I think we are all used to experiencing the exercise of our will. As nearly as we can tell, we are not coerced to think or act in certain ways.  However our free will does have some limitations. I might be able to make some decisions, like at a restaraunt, I might order a medium steak, instead of one well done. That kind of choice is open to me, and I have no reason the think that choice is not mine alone. Personally, I would not choose a raw steak.

On the other hand, if I was at a zoo and I placed a raw steak in front of a lion, and another in front of a zebra, the lion would likely eat the steak, but the zebra probably would not. Could they both choose to eat steak? Yes, they could. Why would I think the lion would, but the zebra would not?

The answer lies in their natures. By nature, the lion eats meat, by nature, the zebra avoids it. We also have nature. We have a sinful nature. That sin nature makes us slaves to sin, and slaves to not have totally free choice. 

Check here to see instances where our sinful nature is referred to.

Roman 6: 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now, God also has a nature, He has a righteous nature. I might shock you to realize, that there are things that you and I can do, that God cannot do.

Example, Titus 1:2

1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior.

Everything does what it does, within it's own nature. That limits our real choices. I might like to choose to fly. It is not in my nature to fly. No matter how hard I flap my arms, not matte how much I desire to fly, I cannot do what is an easy thing for most birds, due to differences in our natures.

Read Romans 7. There you see a description of an inability to carry out what one wishes to do. Sin in us is so compelling. Our flesh, our nature, is at war with the spiritual side of us that would desire to please God.

In one verse of that chapter, Paul says:

  14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

There again, we see that idea of slavery, not freedom. In verse 18 it says:

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right,but not the ability to carry it out.

I think that is a  strong indicator, that our will is not as free, as some like to make it.

Thankfully, God gives a new nature, at the new birth. We still, in this life have the old nature, and will as long as we are stuck in these bodies, the body that Paul called the body of death in Roman 7:24:

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

In other places, the Bible tells us that no one seeks God, no one does good, etc.

We are told that we are blind, deaf, have hard hearts, are dead in our sins, and are slaves to sin. Basically, because of these things, we will not seek God, we cannot see or hear Him, we have no real understanding, and we are not truly free. We are lost and in desperate need of a savior.

However, God, and God alone, can fix that. We are not drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue. We are already dead, stuck in the mud at the bottom, and it is God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and breathes life into us.

Then, we are no longer deaf, no longer blind, we can begin to understand the things of God, and hear His voice. Then, we are given a new heart, a heart of flesh, instead of stone. Then we are given freedom, and can resist sin (1 Cor 10:13) and we pursue a life of righteousness, as we are being conformed to the image of His Son. Then, we have crossed over, from death, to life.

Is that enough expansion to give you an idea of what I am talking about?

It is God who makes it possible to freely choose what is contrary to our fallen human nature before the new birth, and what is contrary to the effects of sin on our mind after the new birth.

And while I understood what you are saying

• "We are not drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue. We are already dead, stuck in the mud at the bottom, and it is God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and breathes life into us."

I would say it a bit differently.

We ARE drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue.    We are, in one sense, dead to everything outside this mud pit.  But we are not already dead in regards to this life, but on our way to the bottom, stuck in the mud but not at the bottom yet.  We don't reach the bottom until we end this life, but we have no power to get out of this mud and certain death on our own.  Because we still have life in this world until we take our last breath, we are thus reachable by God.   It is indeed God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and gives us NEW life.

 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

7 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Very good explanation, clear, easy to read, thank you.  Based on my understanding of scripture, I agree with the first paragraph above, for there are verses supporting how none seek God, but God reaches down to us, for even the heavens declare His glory, etc.  My question, if I can get my wording correct, do you see anything happening between these two paragraphs that you wrote and I picked out here above.  Are you saying God only reaches down for those to whom He gives a new heart to?  Or does God reach down, or call to all and give us free will to accept or reject Him?  Now, you may not wish to answer directly, and I may not even want you too.  Someone I know has plainly stated that God has not chosen them, and I simply can't wrap my head around that other than this person refuses perhaps to repent.  I don't know.  I believe God desires all to come to Him, now is the time, if a person desires to know God, repents and seeks, they will find Him.  God does not turn His back on anyone, eternal life is a free gift.  I don't know why, but all day I've been seeing this wide road with nothing but darkness, and the narrow road simply as light, and God sets them before us to choose, not that we can find the narrow road on our own, but He reveals it to us, and even though it only takes one small step in faith to reach this narrow road, it is an incredibly hard step, and God beckons us with "now is the time".  And I am left with, is this just my thoughts?  Is any of this unbiblical?

Exactly how all of these things interact and work, I am not prepared to take a hard stance. I think there is much that is misunderstood and some things that God has just not revealed to us, in ways, that it is easy to say that there is not room for varying understandings. 

I am of the opinion, that God does not try to confuse us. I do not believe He contradicts Himself. I do not beleive He says things in His word, that are deceitful.

At the same time, I cannot help but notice, that Jesus seems to say that He used parables, to hide things from those who are not intended to know.

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. 12 “For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 “Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.  Matt 13

I think that while God Himself, is not deceitful, I do not think that it is beyond God to use deceivers, to accomplish His purposes.

" . . . and becuase of this, God will send a working of delusion for them to believe what is false." 2 thess 2:11

Some people do not like that verse. I admit, that I do not like that verse. However, I am committed to not falling into the trap of thinking that God has to meet with my approval.

I think there is a great revelation to us in Romans 8:

 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Now, I was just planning on pointing out that God causes all things to work together . . .  but that passage is loaded with great stuff.

it is God, who causes

all things to work together for good

to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,

these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

I do not see that passage as particularly vague, we see the causal agent - God 
He causes all things
these things work for good, but only to a select group of people
those he foreknew and predestined
and that it is they, who He justified and conformed to the image of His Son

I think this speaks to a very neglected aspect of God, one, that again, many do not like:

God's sovereignty.

I am not going to get into that here, except to say that everything in God's universe, is His to do with as He pleases, and He does not need to answer to anyone for what he does, not to you, not to me.

I suggest that everyone that they should read Romans 9, not read it, as though one were reading a novel, but read it thought by though, meditatively, prayerfully, digesting everything said in that chapter, and ask God to help you be open to what He says in that passage.

I think when we come to grips with it, and accept it, so many of our objections to all sorts of difficult to accept doctrines, just fall away.

The issues in the tensions between free will and predestination, or election and choice, grace and works, eternal security or tenuous existence, inability to choose God or God responding to our choices etc, are not issues that are solved in a Christian forum, they have been the topic of disagreement for hundreds of years. Either someone ie right, and someone is wrong, or we are all wrong.

However, you asked some questions, that I will make a sort of summary statement of my OPINION.

God, before He created the universe, and therefore before he create us, and before we where able to thing, choose, or act, already had chosen some, to be His children. I do not believe that the Bible ever specifies a basis upon which He made His choices, other that to say He did so for His own will and pleasure (Eph 1). I believe that those God chose before the foundation of the world, are those whom He will eventually draw to Himself, and when He does, He will give them that heart of flesh, and a desire for Him, and a new ability to understand. I think all of that is part of the package of the new birth, and I do not, personally, think that any part of it depends on us.

I think it was Augustine who said something to the effect of "God I remember when I chose you. It was later, that I realized that it was you, who chose me, to choose you." Whoever it was that said something like that, I agree with. I amnot in the habit of of quoting Got Questions, but I will recommend thier article on election, because I think it presents some balance.

Since this thread topic is about the free gift of God, let me close with this:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Actually the whole of Eph 2 is a great read.

I may be wrong, but the way I understand that, is that we have been given faith, and that through that, we have been saved. It is grace, because we did nothing, not one thing, to deserve it, therefore, it is truly a gift. I we managed somehow, with our unbelieving hearts, as enemies of God, to somehow over come our darkened minds and sinful ways, long enough to choose Him, then we have something of which we can boast. If that is the case, then we did something to qualify ourselves. I do not see where in scripture, that is taught. It is God who grants repentance (2 Tim 2:25, Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18). I believe that the only contribution I made to this salvation, is the sin that I needed saving from.

I would also like to comment on one point, slightly outside this topic. There are those who believe, that if it is true, that salvation is all of God, and that He elected some to salvation, from before the foundation of the world, then there is no need to evangelize, because in the mind of God and the exercise of His will, it is a done deal, and it will occur with or without us. These people are sometimes called Hyper-Calvinists.

I do not disagree in principle, based on human logic. However, I do not want to depend on human logic, that is how all sorts of bad ideas get into theology. Jesus, told us to evangelize. For a disciple of Christ, that is the end of the discussion. Sure, God can save them apart from our efforts, but . . .  He commanded us to evangelize. Evangelism is His chosen method (see Rom 10:14,15). Failure to do so is willful sin, plain and simple. It is also true, that there are rewards in our next life, in accordance to our works, why would we want to be the lazy servant who buries that one talent.

 26“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. 27‘Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28‘Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’

      29“For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30“Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I take that to mean, that it is possible, that a person who thinks they are a beleiver, but refuses to evangelize, might just be destined for outer darkness, I do not think that is a good end, so, hyper-calvinists, please beware.

I hope that at least partially answers your questions hlbmd

[Omegaman 3.0]

31 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

And while I understood what you are saying

• "We are not drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue. We are already dead, stuck in the mud at the bottom, and it is God who reaches down, and pulls us up to Him, and breathes life into us."

I would say it a bit differently.

We ARE drowning, gasping for air, seeking rescue.  

If that is what you think I was saying, then you did not understand me. Actually, I meant what I said, the way I said it. By the time we are gasping for air, seeking rescue, we are already saved, we were dead, and made alive and then seek Him, and call out, in my opinion. Until we are at that point of seeking rescue, we are spiritual zombies, the walking dead, not even aware that we ARE dead. There are two categories of people those who are dead, and those God has made alive. There is are in between dying people. Of course there are those who are physically alive, and spiritually dead, and we do not know who is in which camp, God does, but we preach to all, because we do not know, whom God has chosen. 

Again, this is just my opinion, my understanding.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 9/13/2015 at 9:15 PM, Ezra said:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

If you asked the average person whether or not they would like to live forever, almost everyone would say “Yes”.  If you asked the same people if they would like to receive God’s gift of eternal life, they would probably give you a blank stare.

 

For the average person, “There is no such thing as a free lunch”.  Then why should the most precious thing – eternal life – be a free gift?  And because such is human reasoning, the vast bulk of humanity is involved with some kind of religion, even if it consists of self-worship. All religions require human effort in order to be accepted by God, and even then, there is no certainty of acceptance.

 

But when we come to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are shocked to find that God literally offers us the gift of eternal life freely. So why is eternal life a free gift and not something to be earned with our own efforts at being righteous, moral and good?

 

1. We must be as perfect as God (Matthew 5;48)

 

2. We can never be as perfect as God (Romans 3:9-23)

 

3. We would all be separated from God unless He did something for us (Romans 3:24-26; 5:6-11)

 

4. Christ has paid the full penalty for all our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1John 2:1,2).

 

5. Eternal life is therefore a free gift to those who repent and believe the Gospel (1 John 5:1-13).

 

I did not read much in this thread, until I got involved with a few of the posters in it. I thought it might be a good idea to read the OP. As far as it goes (I do not know all of the minutia of Ezra's position), I agree with everything said. So, Ezra, for such an excellent post, I am going to give you a reputation point, enjoy it, LOL.

[other one]

Eternal life is not free......   Jesus paid a terrible price for it.

[Ezra]

12 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I did not read much in this thread, until I got involved with a few of the posters in it. I thought it might be a good idea to read the OP. As far as it goes (I do not know all of the minutia of Ezra's position), I agree with everything said. So, Ezra, for such an excellent post, I am going to give you a reputation point, enjoy it, LOL.

Thanks Omegaman.  Much appreciated.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Eternal life is not free......   Jesus paid a terrible price for it.

Hello brother, O.O. when I buy something and paid for it, I have  in my possession something, someone else had before me.

Is it the same when we say "Jesus paid the price for the eternal life",

That he bought the eternal life from someone who had it before him.

And who was the seller, if Jesus is the buyer? 

Is this a just thought following the statment "Jesus paid the price for it".

Hope I don't burden you. 

[thereselittleflower]

2 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

If that is what you think I was saying, then you did not understand me. Actually, I meant what I said, the way I said it. By the time we are gasping for air, seeking rescue, we are already saved, we were dead, and made alive and then seek Him, and call out, in my opinion. Until we are at that point of seeking rescue, we are spiritual zombies, the walking dead, not even aware that we ARE dead. There are two categories of people those who are dead, and those God has made alive. There is are in between dying people. Of course there are those who are physically alive, and spiritually dead, and we do not know who is in which camp, God does, but we preach to all, because we do not know, whom God has chosen. 

Again, this is just my opinion, my understanding.

Yes, you're speaking of spiritual death.

I'm including our life here on earth  - it starts out in the mud pit, it can end there or we can be saved from the mud pit.  While we are in the mudpit we are spiritually dead, but even spiritually dead we can reason our way to understanding there is a God, and even reason our way into understanding God's plan of salvation. We must become aware of our state in order to call out to God  - this is before the New Birth, before we are made spiritually alive.    So I don't see how we can be spiritual zomibies unable to be aware we need God.  

I guess where we disagree is when we become spiritually alive.  We become spiritually alive in the New Birth.    And I guess we don't quite agree on what it means to be spiritually dead.

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

9 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I guess where we disagree is when we become spiritually alive.  We become spiritually alive in the New Birth.    And I guess we don't quite agree on what it means to be spiritually dead.

We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
1 John 3:14

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24

I think, again, my opinion, is that spiritual death in it's basic form, is separation from God.

However, I am not here to make a case for what I believe, I was asked to expand by thoughts a little, and I have, feel free to believe as you wish.

I think the intricacies and nuances of spiritual death, are really a bit outside of the thread topic, but I will add a few verses that may touch upon spiritual death, for any who want to things more about these things, then I will exit the thread:

omans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:1-3
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Proverbs 8:36
"But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death."

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Romans 5:12-15
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

James 1:15
Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death

Ephesians 4:18
being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart

Ephesians 2:1-2
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

Revelation 2:11
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Romans 6:16-21
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Romans 8:13
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 8:51
"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death."

Romans 1:32
and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Revelation 21:8
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."