What does "having dominion" over women really mean?

[Openly Curious]

OK, should men have dominion over women in today's world?  Is that biblical.  What does it truly mean to "wives submit" to your husbands?

A  woman was created to be a helpmeet to her husband not a slave or servant under the husband's foot.  The woman chooses to be submissive in her role as a helpmeet to her husband hence a virtuous women,  or she can choose to tear down her home by not being a help to her husband.  Ruling over does not mean the wife becomes the property of her husband nor a slave or servant.  There is a big difference in the meaning of these words property, slave, servant and helpmeet.  Many men do not know how to rule their homes in peace nor understanding of what the wife was created to be by God to her husband she was created and designed to be a helpmeet and if you let her alone and not fight against her in the marriage then a godly women will be just that and not let your household come to spoil.

Actually, there is no truth to that.  In one of the scriptures I gave, it refers to how Sarah called Abraham Lord, and that is the example to wives.  The word Lord comes from the Greek word kurios, and it means the husband is supreme in authority, controller, Lord, master, sir.  It comes from the word kurieno which means to have dominion over, be lord over, exercise lordship over.  There is nothing hard to understand here.  That goes in line with Genesis where God said the husband will rule over his wife.  If he is her supreme authority, rules over her, is her controller, and lord and master, I don't see how anyone can come to any conclusion but that she is to do basically anything he tells her to do.  If wives would learn to obey scripture and obey their husbands in the same way they are to obey the Lord, God could bless them and their household, but he can't bless those in rebellion.  That scripture about Sarah and Abraham was in 1 Peter chapter 3, and it makes it clear that wives are to obey their husbands, even if the husband isn't a Christian or living right.  I have bunches of scriptures and the definitions of the Greek and Hebrew words to prove everything I have said is true, and am more than willing to debate this with anyone in the Soap Box.  It is a slam dunk for me.  It is one of the easiest topics for me to prove because there is so much scripture to back it up.

So are you denying that the wife of a husband was created and designed by God to be a helpmeet to her husband.

I am disputing the amount of authority the husband has.  The easiest way to say this so you will understand is to simply say that the husband's authority is so great, if he wants his wife to be a doormat, and she refuses to be a doormat, she is in rebellion, which is the same as witchcraft.  I am not saying he should or should not make her a doormat.  We would likely disagree over what would constitute being a doormat, so I am not saying I am for or against it.  I am just saying his authority is absolute.

You didn't answer my question are you denying that the wife of a husband was created and designed by God to be a helpmeet to her husband?

[Guest Butero]

OK, should men have dominion over women in today's world?  Is that biblical.  What does it truly mean to "wives submit" to your husbands?

A  woman was created to be a helpmeet to her husband not a slave or servant under the husband's foot.  The woman chooses to be submissive in her role as a helpmeet to her husband hence a virtuous women,  or she can choose to tear down her home by not being a help to her husband.  Ruling over does not mean the wife becomes the property of her husband nor a slave or servant.  There is a big difference in the meaning of these words property, slave, servant and helpmeet.  Many men do not know how to rule their homes in peace nor understanding of what the wife was created to be by God to her husband she was created and designed to be a helpmeet and if you let her alone and not fight against her in the marriage then a godly women will be just that and not let your household come to spoil.

Actually, there is no truth to that.  In one of the scriptures I gave, it refers to how Sarah called Abraham Lord, and that is the example to wives.  The word Lord comes from the Greek word kurios, and it means the husband is supreme in authority, controller, Lord, master, sir.  It comes from the word kurieno which means to have dominion over, be lord over, exercise lordship over.  There is nothing hard to understand here.  That goes in line with Genesis where God said the husband will rule over his wife.  If he is her supreme authority, rules over her, is her controller, and lord and master, I don't see how anyone can come to any conclusion but that she is to do basically anything he tells her to do.  If wives would learn to obey scripture and obey their husbands in the same way they are to obey the Lord, God could bless them and their household, but he can't bless those in rebellion.  That scripture about Sarah and Abraham was in 1 Peter chapter 3, and it makes it clear that wives are to obey their husbands, even if the husband isn't a Christian or living right.  I have bunches of scriptures and the definitions of the Greek and Hebrew words to prove everything I have said is true, and am more than willing to debate this with anyone in the Soap Box.  It is a slam dunk for me.  It is one of the easiest topics for me to prove because there is so much scripture to back it up.

So are you denying that the wife of a husband was created and designed by God to be a helpmeet to her husband.

I am disputing the amount of authority the husband has.  The easiest way to say this so you will understand is to simply say that the husband's authority is so great, if he wants his wife to be a doormat, and she refuses to be a doormat, she is in rebellion, which is the same as witchcraft.  I am not saying he should or should not make her a doormat.  We would likely disagree over what would constitute being a doormat, so I am not saying I am for or against it.  I am just saying his authority is absolute.

You didn't answer my question are you denying that the wife of a husband was created and designed by God to be a helpmeet to her husband?

Of course not.  Did you read my post earlier in this thread?  That was the first thing I brought up.  I will see if I can pull it back up front and center.

[Guest Butero]

It means exactly what it says.  The husband is the authority in the home under Christ.  Whatever he says goes.  The modern church has perverted that and created the false teaching of mutual submission making the teachings in scripture null and void, much as the Pharisees used to take liberties with the teachings on honoring Father and Mother.  There are many who think that man being the head of the woman is just because of the curse, but that is not entirely true.  If you go back to Genesis, the Bible tells us why God created woman to begin with.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone:  I will make him an help meet for him.  Genesis 2:18

That means that she was created for the purpose of not only being a companion to her husband, but she was created to assist him in life.  We may have questions over why God created man, but the Bible is clear about why God created woman. 

For the man is not of the woman:  but the woman of the man.  Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.  1 Corinthians 11:9

What of the fall, and how it effected things?  I believe what happened as a result of the fall is not that God changed his original order or plan for man and woman, but that there was no longer unity of purpose, and because of sin, the woman was no longer going to automatically be on the same page as her husband.  Strife would now exist that didn't before the fall, so God had to lay down the order.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shall bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.  Genesis 3:16

There is no way to misunderstand this.  Rule means just what it says.  The husband is the supreme authority in his home.  Whatever he says goes.  After God pronounced the judgment on Eve, he went on to give Adam his punishment for his transgression.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou has hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.  Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken, for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.  Genesis 3:17-19

The curse on the man would require him to do labor if he wanted to eat, and he became responsible for providing for his family.  In reality, when women are made to feel like they have to work a job in addition to being a housewife and Mother, they are actually willingly taking on the curse placed on the man.  It is not really their responsibility.  Feminism is responsible for messing up the original order of things.  This scripture goes hand in hand with the following scripture.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.  1 Timothy 2:11-13

Women are not to take the leadership in the home.  The husband is the head of his household.  In the first recorded sin, the first man chose to obey his wife over God.  The Lord doesn't want that repeated, so the woman is not to be the spiritual leader in the home, but the man is.  Christ is his head, and he is to learn from him through his Word, and instruct his wife and children. 

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church:  and he is the savior of the body.  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.  Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives are commanded to obey their husbands in the same way the church is commanded to be subject to Jesus Christ.  How are we to obey Christ?  Think about that, and then consider that wives are to obey their husbands in the same manner. 

Let your women keep silence in the churches:  for it is not permitted unto them to speak:  but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home:  for it is a shame for women to speak in church. 1 Corinthians 14:34,35

But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ:  and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.  1 Corinthians 11:3

What of women who are married to men who are not following Christ?  The order remains the same.  Wives are to be an example by their behavior.

LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands:  that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;  While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.  1 Peter 3:1,2

A lot of people try to get around God's order by claiming the husband isn't following Christ so the wife isn't obligated to obey her husband.  That is clearly not the case.  It continues:

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold or of putting on of apparel.  But let it be the hidden man of the heart; in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.  For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands.  Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.  1 Peter 3:3-6

The example is given of how Sara obeyed her husband Abraham, and it goes so far as to say she called him lord.  That represents he fact he was the supreme authority in his home.  The husband is lord in his home, and Jesus Christ is his Lord.  This is the order God set up.  Mankind has rebelled against it, and we see the results in how things have turned out.  The church won't teach this for a variety of reasons.  First of all, there is the cultural changes that have taken place.  We are so used to it, we can't really believe this is what the Bible is teaching, so we make it fit in with our pre-conceived beliefs.  There is the influence of women in the church who reject God's order.  There is the matter of false teachings being passed down from one teacher to another, and the church has accepted what they are saying as true and passed it on.  Finally, there is the matter of not actually taking the time to study it out and put all the scriptures together. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am only bringing this back up because I was asked if I believe the wife was created as a help meet, and this explains my position.

[enoob57]

I didn't know you had a chain honest

Edited September 16, 2015 by enoob57

[Guest Butero]

This conversation always goes the same way, pretty much every time I've seen it. The word "submission" gets mentioned and that is an offensive word to some. Then you start getting words like "doormat" and "slave" getting tossed about. Why do we always have to qualify what the bible says on subjects that are not culturally acceptable, I ask? "Well, the bible does say to submit, but that doesn't mean to be a doormat!!!!!" Why can't it just be "the bible says to submit," because that's what the bible says. It does not qualify the statement. This is incredibly pervasive. I'm not arguing that submission = being a doormat either, before that chorus starts up. What I'm saying is that we should not feel the need to apologize for what the bible says simply because what the bible says is unpopular with the world and at times unpalatable even for Christians. Submission implies submission, there's no way around that. I have never seen anybody on these forums argue that this means a husband has a right to be abusive or tyrannical, so why all of the qualification of terminology?

I believe it is either obey or don't but that is what the Bible says. "Submit" to your husband's authority. In the dictionary the synonyms for Submit = 1. comply, bow, obey, agree, resign; There is only one listed  Antonym for Submit = fight

There is a lot of things that God tells us to do in the Bible that is very hard to follow but  as followers we must follow--yes?  Difficulty comes when we try to cherry pick or change it to suit our preferences, society or lifestyle.  Marriages are a partnership but it is not equal in authorities, both have roles and are supposed to complement each other. I think it is a process and being to be submitted to the Lord Christ Jesus first helps. Submitting isn't the same as acting as the doormat, a godly prayerful woman submitting as helpmeet  should be loved, honored, nourished , protected, respected and cherished by her husband. Her role should be equally valued and seen as holding a respected, wise, elegant (graceful) supportive, complementary position to her husband. The husband is commanded to LOVE his wife as Christ LOVES the Church. Study how Christ loves the church. No where in that could a Husband treat his Wife as a doormat, to disrespect, use, abandon,  or abuse her.  We are not perfect so we fail again and again,  but it is a place to start.

I'm speaking of normal circumstances not of abusive relationships.

This thread wasn't really asking how the husband is to act towards his wife, so I never went down that road.  The only point I was making is even if the husband is an unbeliever and doing things wrong himself, the wife is to obey him according to scripture.  I could say the husband shouldn't treat his wife as a door mat, but there is one reason I didn't do that.  Something that is not being treated as a doormat could be said to be being treated as a doormat.  It is all in the eye of the beholder.  I don't have to look hard to know how Jesus loved the church and laid down his life for the church.  It is recorded in scripture, but he never laid aside his Lordship.  I know that when I think of how I am supposed to submit to the Lord, it means to do anything he says, not just what I choose to do when I feel like it.  Wives are supposed to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. 

In an ideal world, everyone does everything the Bible says and follows God without question.  We are not living in an ideal world, and Satan has led us to follow his ways.  He rebelled against God, and is teaching all of us to follow his lead and hate being under authority.  I admit I don't always like it.  It is hard to let someone rule over you.  That still doesn't change what God says. 

[gdemoss]

As I grow in my walk and knowledge of God my views on such matters become altared.

There is that which God has said.  There is that which has challenged what God has said by countering with 'has God said' question then there is that which we have sold ourselves into that is true whether we believe it or not.

I have absolute authority in my home over all occupants that reside therein but myself am subject unto God which is evidenced by God backing my words to those who live with me.  That is my experience and has been contingent upon my obedience unto the Lord our God.  

Why?

Because there is a God who is absolute that honors his word but holds me to mine.

Your home may be different.  You may have entered into a different covenant than I.  Your mouth may have subjected you to wedding vows or between the sheets promises that have taken away your rights or given you rights you never should have had.  God holds us accountable for every idle word.

 

[enoob57]

OK, should men have dominion over women in today's world?  Is that biblical.  What does it truly mean to "wives submit" to your husbands?

I believe that God said 'husbands over wives', not men over women.  Women are not subject to be ruled over by bosses, friends or male relatives.  I am totally amazed at how many men think the Bible puts them in authority over women.  It doesn't. 

Well...actually the whole point of being the boss is that you make the rules...as for the rest, I agree 

Let me clarify that 'boss' thing; yes, a male boss (or even a female one) makes the rules at work but has no PERSONAL  authority over women. 

comment.... now what do you think of that miss smarty pants

Miss Smarty Pants thinks you are yanking her chain. 

Miss smarty pants huh?

say it isn't so... little bunny fu fu